Turbo manifold ideas

[iomegalinux]

It's OK for you, you're in Quebec - it's going to be a lot more effort to get that setup to the UK or Romania...

you have a point on this, but you get a great advantage with exchange rate.
1200 CAD = 775 gpb
i know that the few things i ordered from uk (rally nuts) was here in 4 days and you pay the real shipping cost, not an ebay unreal shipping cost.

 

[PobodY]

This thread.

I have never said that twin scroll does not work on a 4 pot. I said that there is little benefit as the exhaust pulses are well separated anyway and that its not as simple as saying twin scroll are better than single entry.

So I was slightly wrong on my quote (appologies to Ed)

Seeing as I started, I might as well keep quoting the man:

I would love to see some evidence for how much benefit you get from twin vs single entry using the same tubo/engine, but I don't think anyone here has the £3k+ it would cost in manifolds and turbos. I think with a twin scroll set up you'd have to tune the engine to get the most out of it, like run more overlap on the cam.

I should say that I don't really know anything about it, but I trust Ed's advice and background in turbos which is why I'm just repeating what he's said. - I'm happy be proven wrong, I'm just saying that I don't believe that twin-scroll is a magic formula.
It maybe that you've made an incredibly good point which I've missed; that this is far more cost effective than a new single scroll and manifold. - I don't really know what they cost either.

 

[iomegalinux]

but, the real advantage, is that the turbo is design side down, so getting short run (and equal length) doesn't mean twisty (so restricted)
and by the way, the intercooler pipe run is shorten also (quicker spool)

 

[iomegalinux]

it's a lot more an alternative that have some big advantage on some side , that a real better in all way solution

 

[Empty Pockets]

This thread.

So I was slightly wrong on my quote (appologies to Ed)

Seeing as I started, I might as well keep quoting the man:


I should say that I don't really know anything about it, but I trust Ed's advice and background in turbos which is why I'm just repeating what he's said. - I'm happy be proven wrong, I'm just saying that I don't believe that twin-scroll is a magic formula.
It maybe that you've made an incredibly good point which I've missed; that this is far more cost effective than a new single scroll and manifold. - I don't really know what they cost either.

You do know that Ed's considering going twinscroll on his build don't you....

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

As I said I see the benefits on a 4 pot engine being small with twin scroll, theoretically you will get some better spool (whether its enough to notice I don't know) and potentially loose a little power at the very top end (again whether you'd notice that I don't know). Horses for courses as they say. I would still love to see a straight like for like comparison of a Twin scroll vs single entry but the money required to buy two large turbos and two custom manifolds makes this highly unlikely.

Russ is correct I am toying with the idea of a twin entry setup. I'm tempted to see if I can get the lads in special products to make me up a HX30/40 hybrid with a billet titanium 85mm compressor wheel matched to a big trim 70mm turbine in a smallish twin entry housing

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

but, the real advantage, is that the turbo is design side down, so getting short run (and equal length) doesn't mean twisty (so restricted)
and by the way, the intercooler pipe run is shorten also (quicker spool)

Rotate the compressor cover:doh:

Just remembered to check front wheel clearence before and after (just ask Shroom)

 

[iomegalinux]

you can check the build of the white pulsar here :
http://www.rhdquebec.com/showthread.php?t=6218&highlight=skid

air to water cooled done by them.

 

[iomegalinux]

Rotate the compressor cover:doh:

ahaha yeah i know what you mean, for sure you can turn the cover, but it will not give you enough distance from the block to the turbo flange

 

[shroom]

Rotate the compressor cover:doh:

Just remembered to check front wheel clearence before and after (just ask Shroom)

:lol::lol:

twin scroll :? some people been playing too much World of war craft with that kind of name :lol:

sounds interesting and atleast something different which i think is nice, that there is interest in trying new thinks with the pulsar not just doing what everyone has been

 

[iomegalinux]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Niss...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories.

here's the reason for this setup to be good for the pulsar :
Why go with such a turbo you may ask? Because being reverse, the EVO 8 turbo has its turbine inlet flange located on the other side of the turbine housing. With the compressor inlet aiming the left side of the car, any common Garrett turbocharger will put the turbine flange nearly against the block, making the construction of a decent manifold almost impossible. The reverse TD05 turbo makes it perfect for the tight confines of the RNN14

 

[PobodY]

Is there any particular reason you keep pimping his stuff? - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, and have set straight on a few things in this thread... It just seems like you have got something personally invested in it, that's all.

 

[iomegalinux]

ahaha yeah, looking at this, this way, it seem to be like i'm from that compagny, but it's a local shop, and found that the evo turbo & manifold is a great alternative for the pulsar.
and for that thread the men was looking at a manifold that will not crack. I know that a manifold from them will not crack at all.

i try to share some local info, maybe unknown for a country pretty far from here...
the pulsar haven't been produce here, so getting info, parts, upgrade etc... is pretty always in forum from your side of the world. So when i can bring some more info i try to do it

 

[darkyGTI-R]

I would never put anything evo related in my R it's our biggest rival lol
But saying that that's just my opinion!

 

[RO_SUNNY]

Coming back on this thread.....

Yesterday I saw an Mercedes Benz Vito with a 4cyl diesel engine.

The standard manifold on that car was this (shown in the pictures).......I think that some engineers calculated and flowed this one before sending it into production.
You can't compare a exhaust facbircator which makes nice looking exhaust manifolds with a billion euro company which invests milions of euros into research and development.

I think I will try and make one of theese manifolds.

 

[Trip]

You can't compare a exhaust facbircator which makes nice looking exhaust manifolds with a billion euro company which invests milions of euros into research and development.

I do not agree with this statement. Engineers for mass production cars base the design primarily on the cost to mass produce the part and reliability. They do take into consideration in this case (being a non performance vehicle) the performance aspect but not on top of the list.

Different can be said for the exclusive non mass produced performance vehicles were parts are designed primarily with performance in mind.

 

[RO_SUNNY]

Yeah yeah yeah......I can't agree with what you asaying.

Why?

99% of the manifold don't have a FEM based calculation for gas turbulence simulation....I can assure you with this because in my college years i had seminars the did just this calculations.
Small example:
Almost all piping on a ship have this calculations made for gas/liquid flow through them.....so......

To do a perfectly flowed manifold you need:
-Compatible materials (pipes, welding consumables)
-gas composition to do the calculation (you need to know hard particles....etc)

All car manufacturers have this softwares and it's really easy to do this calculations.

YOU CAN"T TELL ME THAT A CUSTOM FABRICATOR DOES A BETTER JOB THEN A COMPANY WHICH BUILDS LUXURY AND PERFORMANCE CARS


I can't say that all custom exhausts fabricators don't do this calculations....but I can tell you that most of them just make them to look nice and shiny.

 

[Trip]

I am convinced that custom fabricators do not have access to such software and even if they had i doubt they would know how to use it . Some guys do it for a living for 20yrs plus and have enough experience to fabriacte a great flowing manifold without the need of software. As they say Practice makes perfect.

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

Yeah yeah yeah......I can't agree with what you asaying.

Why?

99% of the manifold don't have a FEM based calculation for gas turbulence simulation....I can assure you with this because in my college years i had seminars the did just this calculations.
Small example:
Almost all piping on a ship have this calculations made for gas/liquid flow through them.....so......

To do a perfectly flowed manifold you need:
-Compatible materials (pipes, welding consumables)
-gas composition to do the calculation (you need to know hard particles....etc)

All car manufacturers have this softwares and it's really easy to do this calculations.

YOU CAN"T TELL ME THAT A CUSTOM FABRICATOR DOES A BETTER JOB THEN A COMPANY WHICH BUILDS LUXURY AND PERFORMANCE CARS


I can't say that all custom exhausts fabricators don't do this calculations....but I can tell you that most of them just make them to look nice and shiny.

I agree with Trip, you clearly need to wind your neck in when talking about things you have no idea about:

Mass produced exhausts are manufcatured for cost - castability being a high factor, longevity (thermal fatigue plays a big part) and packaging.

FEM (Finite element method) is used for solid material analysis not flow, that would be CFD (Computational fluid dynamics) - yes there is a finite element solver algorithm for CFD but this is different to FEM and the finite volume method is much better due to stronger conservation of the underlying equations).

CFD software is not really needed to design very good exhaust manifold most of the design work can be achieved using 1-D calculations, with final tweeks performed with CFD. Some interesting work on cold start up and FSI (fluid-structual interactions) is now being done, but this is again mainly to avoid thermal fatigue issue by ensuring the manifold heats evenly.

You also assume that the same people designing the S-class design the Vito diesel, I would be very much supprised if this is the case.

 

[iomegalinux]

i would go in that direction too, it why we upgrade about near everything on the car.
bushing are great for the stock setup, but so much stiffer polyeuretane, but so much pricy. every bit is a little over the "spec" for not breaking up to quick. manifold is in the same category, they have mold, they tried to use those mold for many car/model/option. it's the only way to make more money out of each car, so they do it.
and they're sure the quality is always the same from the first to the last. the material is the best tu ensure nothing will crack at high temp, and it's cheaper to mold.
even with a full-race manifold with stock setup you'll see no gain.