weight saving tip

J

jpward

Guest
Boooooost said:
Do you honestly think cutting holes in some of the main structural parts off the car is a good idea?

I'd say that you would end up weakening the pillars and may cause more body flex. It would be interesting to see the results after a roll over.

Would you do this to your car?

The pictures of the doors is all well and good but its not the pillars is it? From what little I can see of that car the pillars look relatively hole free.
Wow you can see round corners!

I would not do this to my car at present because I am not a weight freak but if the car was to become a track car then i would not think twice about it!

PS This is an old old technique used on many variations of machines from drag/track all the way throught to monster trucks

a few links i could find in 2 mins;

Clicky

Clicky

Clicky

Clicky


Ok the last one was a pisstake :p
Could not find a violin!
 

MarkTurbo

Well-Known Member
All those links prove is that theres people as stupid as you that are willing to cut holes in important areas of their cars :lol:

How many holes do you see cut in the pillers of this car :roll:

 

Keira

New Member
jpward said:
a few links i could find in 2 mins;
did you read any of them ?

With a roll cage fitted you can strip out a lot more metal from the car - side impact beams and cut away inner arches and panels but do not remove any part of the structure of the car
 

MarkTurbo

Well-Known Member
I really did think that after the legendary fuel cut defender thread it would be hard to say anything more stupid.............how wrong i was :doh: :lol:
 
J

jpward

Guest
MarkTurbo said:
I really did think that after the legendary fuel cut defender thread it would be hard to say anything more stupid.............how wrong i was :doh: :lol:

You keyboard ninjas are still not getting the Principle :frusty:

Next time you go into a multi story car park look up at the beams most of the new designed ones will have straight beams as in not arched, the vertical web will in most cases be yes as you have guessed with holes

Why????? Well 1 is strength, as the ADD'S strength they would not go to the extra costs just to make them weaker! :lol: :lol: :lol:

2, is weight as all those circular plates removed well add up to a fair amount of weight and reduce the static stress on the supporting stanchions

If you knew anything about applied mechanics you would know this already! ;-)




And as you keep bringing up the FCD thread I fail to see why when you never bothered to contact HKS to say why they had miss sold a product I never said I used or was going to use one :roll: boys grow up this is an OC not a playground for kiddies like this thread has also turned into a point proving exercise yet again
! :?
 
J

jpward

Guest
stumo said:
keep digging that hole JP. Keep digging that hole.
:? Nobody’s digging anything mate I provide expert opinion and proof and if people want to pee their pants because they fear a catastrophic failure of the body structure of the car because they "Guess" it is dangerous then that’s up to them :lol: I believe statistics would say you would more likely be injured from having a chopped bumper bar (most FMIC people) than having some 20mm holes in the pillars ;-)

If FIA approve it in rally cars and other race series also then they must be wrong also :doh:
 

CruiseGTi-R

Member
Right, the steel beams you see in car parks: These are 'Cellular' beams, which are a more modern version of 'Castellated' beams. These beams are 'I' shaped in section. The web section is what carries the shear, but shear flow is happy to travel in a diagonal direction in the steel left between those holes. They remove the circles of steel to save weight, but it doesn't add strength, its just removing material that isn't particularly stressed.

These steel beams act like trusses (trusses have diagonals members, which is essentially what those steel beams become once the holes are cut out).

This ONLY works for members who are in vertical bending (the car park floors load the beams vertically). If you take a member (such as your a, b or c pillar) and subject it to axial compression (if you roll over) with holes cut out, its buckling capacity will be massively reduced (it'll just crumple like tin foil). Buckling capacity relies directly on cross sectional area and bending strength about the weakest axis. Holes will reduce both these factors.

Even if you don't roll over, the a,b and c pillars are not I sections - they are more like box sections and are more subjected to bending action in lots of different directions (as part of the rigidity of the car), which means the pillars will be much much weaker with holes cut out.

The static stress isn't reduced by removing material. The forces in the member stays the same, it just finds a different path through the material. Stress on an a,b or c pillar from axial force will be enormously higher when material is removed as simply put there is less cross sectional area for the stress to be distributed over.

Jesus Christ, please don't cut holes in your pillars.

That, my friend, is understanding structural mechanics...
 

Keira

New Member
i can not believe you are comparing structual steel beams to the construction of a cars body shell :roll:

with a fully welded in, multipoint cage you could, if you wanted to, cut the whole fooking roof and majority of the body shell off and not suffer to many detrimental effects at all. The fact a rally car has to have a minimum weight of 1200 and something kilos kinda negates the need to be chopping holes out everywhere anyway.

You mentioned monster trucks earlier, they're tubular framed with a fibreglass shell sat over it, the body provides no strength what-so-ever , just the same as funny cars, top fuel and other grp bodied cars.

Anybody, that chops out holes of the a,b and c pillars on their road car will very likely end up dead in the event of roll or bad accident and i highly doubt you'd get the car through an mot.

you cut away suprlus, non structual metal, simple as that.

its not a point proving exercise at all but telling people to do something dangerous is fooking ridiculous.
 

MarkTurbo

Well-Known Member
jpward said:
If FIA approve it in rally cars
Lets see all the pictures of these rally cars with holes cut in the pillers then ;-) That picture i posted earlier is a wrc subaru and despite having a full weld in cage for strength do you see any holes in the pillers ;-)
 
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stumo

Active Member
Like i said before...


keep digging that hole JP. Keep digging that hole.


We're not laughing with you, we're laughing AT you.
 

Keira

New Member
CruiseGTi-R said:
That, my friend, is understanding structural mechanics...
are you a stuctual engineer by chance ;) :lol:

i work with them day in, day out so have to listen to them get excited about different loadings all day long.

i cant believe jp can get everything so wrong every bloody time he posts tbh..:lol:

(awaiting topdoggtir to tell me im a tosser or something :roll: )
 

CruiseGTi-R

Member
diesel weasel said:
are you a stuctual engineer by chance ;) :lol:

i work with them day in, day out so have to listen to them get excited about different loadings all day long.

i cant believe jp can get everything so wrong every bloody time he posts tbh..:lol:

(awaiting topdoggtir to tell me im a tosser or something :roll: )
I am, and I do get excited about loadings :-D .

How come you work with them, what do you do?
 

Keira

New Member
when im not recieving sperm im a project manager

currently on a job in the city (refurb, 1930's office building) where the pot floors, just about failed (on paper :roll:) the calcs for the expected loadings when completely fitted out, with all the computers and stuff. So the whole lots been ripped out working topdown from the inside and rebuilt with new steels and slabs whilst the original walls of the outside of the building remain standing. All being done at an unexepected, unbudgeted cost of about 15million to the developer :shock:
 
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Boooooost

Member
jpward said:
Wow you can see round corners!
No but the parts of the car that the doors are bolted to are actually the pillars and I did say "from what little I could see".


And why am I going to pee my pants? There wont be catastrophic failure of my car.

You seem to make sweeping statements then either cannot back them up or use "evidence" that has absolutely fook all to do with the subject, take the doors as an example as I said they are not the pillars!!

The car in question in this thread is a road car and as far as i'm aware does not have a cage so your examples of WRC cars etc is irrelavant as if they did cut holes in the pillars (yet to be seen) they have a full cage to protect the passengers and add structural strength.
 

Boooooost

Member
jpward said:
I would not do this to my car at present because I am not a weight freak but if the car was to become a track car then i would not think twice about it!
Go on do it, it wont cost you anything only time. :)

I think you should prove us all wrong and rip into your car to prove your confidence in doing this to a road car with no cage.
 
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youngsyp

New Member
jpward said:
You keyboard ninjas are still not getting the Principle :frusty:

Next time you go into a multi story car park look up at the beams most of the new designed ones will have straight beams as in not arched, the vertical web will in most cases be yes as you have guessed with holes

Why????? Well 1 is strength, as the ADD'S strength they would not go to the extra costs just to make them weaker! :lol: :lol: :lol:

2, is weight as all those circular plates removed well add up to a fair amount of weight and reduce the static stress on the supporting stanchions

If you knew anything about applied mechanics you would know this already! ;-)
Unfortunately, there is one point, both you and the structural engineer has forgotten to include. The car park beams you've both mentioned are designed to be the shape they are, as explained by CruiseGTi-R, the GTiR's structure is not designed to have holes cut in it.
It was designed to have the structural pillars etc as solid (well hollow tubular) pieces of steel and not to have many circular holes cut into them.
I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand ?!
 

stevepudney

GTiROC CHAIRMAN
Staff member
jpward said:
You keyboard ninjas are still not getting the Principle :frusty:

Next time you go into a multi story car park look up at the beams most of the new designed ones will have straight beams as in not arched, the vertical web will in most cases be yes as you have guessed with holes

Why????? Well 1 is strength, as the ADD'S strength they would not go to the extra costs just to make them weaker! :lol: :lol: :lol:

2, is weight as all those circular plates removed well add up to a fair amount of weight and reduce the static stress on the supporting stanchions

If you knew anything about applied mechanics you would know this already! ;-)
Just let me know if you start hacking away at your car and I'll start the search for a replacement NI area rep :lol: :lol:
 
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