How do you "break-in" an engine after you have reb

[Innovate Performance]

mate, i have always let them warm up to check for leaks cause you will be amazed how much oil or coolant can come out of an engine in such a sort space of time.

The other thing is the ecu setting may be wrong for the engine set up and may cause damage if you just start it up and go for it. You have just spent a sh*t load on a new engine and an extra 20-30 mins will not hert and can save you alot of money.

And another thing to remember is as a piston moves up and down the rings will slowly change there postion this is why you are meant to put the gaps 180 degrees apart to stop them from all lining up.
So the ring will have to bed in all the way round the bore.

You can also put a little oil down the bores to lub up the rings before you start up it will smoke for a second or 2 but you know you rings will be lubricated.

 

[AJ4]

You can also put a little oil down the bores to lub up the rings before you start up it will smoke for a second or 2 but you know you rings will be lubricated.

I think the mods should close this thread before someone wrecks their engine on bad advice.... So how exactly does this oil lubricate the rings when its been burnt away in the first couple of revolutions ??

If you don't load the engine, the rings will never expand enough to run in properly. The cylinder wall will glaze, and you will never have high compression ever again. Thats it, end of story... If anyone disagrees, please follow it with a reason or opinion and start a proper discussion, instead of all these random fly-away statements.

For people running in engines - at the end of the day, its your own opinion that counts. Read all you can on the subject and then decide for yourself the best way to do it. There are more methods and opinions than there are engines... Use your head, be logical, and don't be mislead by some of the rather random statements

 

[Innovate Performance]

You can also put a little oil down the bores to lub up the rings before you start up it will smoke for a second or 2 but you know you rings will be lubricated.

I think the mods should close this thread before someone wrecks their engine on bad advice.... So how exactly does this oil lubricate the rings when its been burnt away in the first couple of revolutions ??

If you don't load the engine, the rings will never expand enough to run in properly. The cylinder wall will glaze, and you will never have high compression ever again. Thats it, end of story... If anyone disagrees, please follow it with a reason or opinion and start a proper discussion, instead of all these random fly-away statements.

For people running in engines - at the end of the day, its your own opinion that counts. Read all you can on the subject and then decide for yourself the best way to do it. There are more methods and opinions than there are engines... Use your head, be logical, and don't be mislead by some of the rather random statements

Cause the oil will run down to the rings and the excess will burn off you do have to leave if for about 10 mins. With the engine off for obvious reasons. I have never done this but have seen it been done.

It also work to unseize an engine sometimes . But only if it the rings, works well on engine that have been in back garden .

What ever you do you will load the engine even if it is getting out of the drive, cause load is not all about positive pressure/boost pressure. If it was how the hell would you run in a N/A engine. :?: they are nearly alway in vacume.

Ross this section is the reason why i like to quote dyno time for running engines,this is because then we know exactly what has happened to the engine. But People seem to think that £400 is not worth it. The fact that you dont need to worrey about it is more appiling to me than any thing else and also quicker. I do all my own engine on a dyno.

Running an engine is is each to there own really.

If some thing is going to brake or go wrong it will do regardless of what you do . Thats Life

 

[AJ4]

I think you are missing some of the basic fundamentals of engine design, so please feel free to argue if you do not agree with what I am about to say...

Gas seal is caused by hot combustion gases pushing the rings out onto the cylinder wall ( and not by spring tension in the springs ! )

The only way to force the rings out far enough to properly bed them in is by ensuring you have a high 'load' ( read that as high rpm

If you do not force the rings out, the honing surface of the cylinder wall will be flattened instead of cut, and will not retain oil ( known as glazing ). This happens when the peaks get pushed over into the troughs instead of being 'cut'.Once this happens, forget it and start again, its knackered.

You must bed the rings in while they still have the ability ( and 'roughness' ) to cut through the honing. They lose this very very quickly, therefore any bedding in should be done immediately or you lose your chance...

If I have got any of this wrong, please tell me, but only if you include your reasons why

 

[Anonymous]

So what about all of the bearings in the engine and other seals that need to bed in? There is a bit more to running an engine in than just sealing the rings.

It is the pressure in the combustion chamber that gets behind the ring and forces them out to the cylinder walls, that’s correct. But just because the engine isn’t making 300Bhp on boost doesn’t mean that there isn’t enough cylinder pressure to force the rings out. Without combustion you have approximately 150 – 180psi cylinder pressure, with the combustion you get on idle that increases to thousands of pounds. This is more than enough to promote the rings to force themselves again the cylinder wall.

But please by all means drive your engine hard from a full rebuild and see what happens. In the cylinders the hot spots that the rings create from not being bedded in properly will quickly lead to pre-ignition, the tight bearings are likely to get hot enough to weld to the crank and spin in the big ends of the con rods making a lovely mess. Not to mention all the stray metal fillings caused by the running in process getting quickly whipped through the engine and past the turbo shaft, quickly destroying turbo bearings.

You might make more power from an engine that is driven hard straight from the rebuild after 1500 miles, but it’s not going to last for very long.

 

[jonee]

r

well iv'e read all this and well the thought that i'd like you hold this.

if youv'e ever hired a new car with very low miles do you drive it like a big girl or do you give it loads of sh1te from the off.

it is told in the manual for the land rover 110 turbo diesel that after a full engine rebuild, as soon as the engine starts hold the revs up to 3500-4000 rpm for 3 minutes.

so you make your own decisions and apply them to wat you think

i don't think that there is a wrong or right way to run an engine in.

cheers jonee

 

[AJ4]

I never said rag the car to death from the first second - I wouldn't recommend that on any cold engine

The argument was that you shouldn't treat the car with kid gloves and let it idle for hours and slowly build up load / rpm over hundreds of miles. You need to take an aggressive approach if you want to get a nice tight engine from the off. Bedding in the rings isn't the only part, but it is the most important and should take presedence. Whats the point of having nice spanking new cams and cranks if the engine burns oil and wont run because you knacked the cylinder walls with bad bedding in practice ? Its utterly pointless and defeats the object.

The other argument was, yes, its good to have an opinion, but only if you can back it up with some kind of sense or logic. To be honest, some of the hints and tips in this thread are just downright dangerous ! maybe if I cracked an egg, and dropped it in the cylinder, it will seal the pistons properly, woo hoo !!

<this is a bit tongue in cheek, don't take it personally >

 

[Nad]

I cant find the original thread which was from ages ago, so long ago Ivan actually hadnt dynoed his car, so at least 18months ago, maybe even 2 yrs.

Anyway using the search button :shock: I found this:

http://forum.gtiroc.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=15944&highlight=piston+rings

And also for the sceptics there is this:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

One point to note, be careful what oil ur using, dont forget its a turbo car and turbos only like certain oil. This will surely rule out running in and mineral oil. At the least semi synthetic IMO, this will increase the bed in period but going by some peoples opinions in this thread ur engine would never bed in.

The most important part is bedding in areas that need to seal first and then to the ones that need high edges wearing down, which hopefully there should be none.

Never leave a car to idle to warm it up or cool down, there is more load on an engine mechanically at 1000rpm than at 5000rpm and will increase wear on cams specifically. Yes, do spend 5 mins warming the engine up while bedding in, but please do it while driving carefully, no sitting still. Also, checking for oil/water leaks is a good idea but if they arent apparent after 30 secs just get going, u only need to get thru 20 miles, just dont get a puncture

Also quick note to add, bearings shouldnt be in contact with any moving surface, there should be a film of oil there. Also if ur not getting oil pressure, dont try and run it in :roll:
Nad

 

[turblio]

Well I have a print out of how to run my engine in from my engine builder and it has worked for me, as it has not burnt hardly a drop of oil after 2700 miles and is a very quick car at just 1.2 bar
ps Thanks again Nisstek for a storming rebuild
Frank

 

[campbellju]

Re: r

as soon as the engine starts hold the revs up to 3500-4000 rpm for 3 minutes.

I forgot to mention I did this

The engine builder and his colleague were both adamant about the importance of this. We did it unitl all oil and water temps had come to normal and the oil pressure went from Extremely high to just high. checked for leaks and noises and then switched off. Probably took about 15 mins or so. They also explained it was critical in the wearing in process.

After that the advice was to keep it in the garage (Re-built at home) and start it a few times, blipping the throttle constantly to around 3500rpm until the engine came upto temp and switch off, check for leaks etc.

Still yet to attack a road in earnest but after a couple of test runs it will be getting its first oil change (20 miles).

I'm very interested to know other people's opinons and experiences so don't close the thread mods. For example, when people say they rev the engine high, what is high?? Above 5000, above 4000??

My engine is quite light so should I rev it more?

Jim

 

[campbellju]

Nad, I was involved in the last post and its still not clear. Websnowbo obviously had a lot of experience and said a similar thing to my engine builders. The full boost redline it method I've read before and it still sounds dangerous but will happily be proven wrong.

On the oil thing I was advised to use mineral oil for the first 20 miles (Initial bedding in period) but as you point out its not good for turbos. I'm not coming on boost with my method and not going over 4K either so for this period it rings true in my mind. For the next stage I'm swapping for semi as you suggest and its here where higher revs are more appropriate.

The redline method I can see is good for the bottom end but dangerous for the top end.... unless the car is up to temp first using the sub 4K method. Re-reading through the posts there seems to be a lot of semantics people are getting upset over. Redlining the car all the time is obviously stupid as is idling everywhere.

I think there are subtleties to both methods that we're missing. Like redlining an NA engine on cars and bikes is good but for a turbo'd car might be bad until after 500 miles.

Just an opinon. As people have already said in doubt then ask "your" engine builder as they are responsible for the work.

Jim

 

[Nad]

I would never redline it as such. If I ever get round to driving mine again I will just drive it like I did every day for the first 20 miles, then after than I'm not sure. Continue to drive it normally or build the revs up in stages.

TBH I think the best way is just drive it normally, everything on newer engines has less to bed in as they are built to tighter tolerances.

Oh and when I say normally, I use country roads, I wouldnt drive up and down a motorway

Thing is, if it isnt run through the whole rev range when bedding in, it will never bed in properly and may be tighter at higher engine speed due to all the techy stuff with vibrations, movements and balancing etc.

Nad

 

[Odin]

This thread has made me rethink my plans .

I was pulling my motor out for the rebuild but seeing as it's not running at the moment :roll: ,I don't want to risk putting a new motor in with out solveing the problem first.

So I'm putting it back together fixing the problem and then getting it remapped, Once that's all done i'll pull the motor out again and go from there, At least this way I can be fairly sure that when I fit the rebuilt engine It will fire up with out any unfixed problem's to worry about 8) .


rob

 

[Jonesy]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, this may sound like a dumbass question , but say you have rebuilt your engine fitted bigger turbo injectors engine management etc. Surely when you start it up its going to run like a bag of a shite if it even runs at all due to fuelling etc being altered.
So how would you go about running the engine in, on a dyno ? or run the engine in then fit all the after market parts and get it re-mapped, which would be a bit of a pain in the ar*e :?

 

[Odin]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, this may sound like a dumbass question , but say you have rebuilt your engine fitted bigger turbo injectors engine management etc. Surely when you start it up its going to run like a bag of a shite if it even runs at all due to fuelling etc being altered.
So how would you go about running the engine in, on a dyno ? or run the engine in then fit all the after market parts and get it re-mapped, which would be a bit of a pain in the ar*e :?

Would probably be better to run it in on the old turbo and injectors, And then take it to your tuner of choice to get them to fit all the new stuff, If I've learned anything during my own rebuild it is that good tuners do have a part to play if you want it all to work well.

You could fit the new turbo yourself and then run the car down to the tuners with out using much boost that should be OK if you're careful with your right foot ;-) .




Rob

 

[Jonesy]

Ok cheers bud, just be easier fitting turbo with the engine out, but as you say you could do that and fit the rest of the stuff once the engine is run in.
At least you know the jobs a good one if you let the pros do it, as long as you take it to the right place anyway ;-)

 

[gtirjoey]

fit the turbo, but not injectors z32 etc until run in, the turbo should not make a big differance on the running of engine nor upset any basic map settings..nice to see all you girls arguing on how to run engines in jus think if everysingle engine builder/tuner had exactley the same opion on things every single tuned pulsar(example) would have the same bhp!!!!!!!!!!

 

[red reading]

a saying i have learnt,fast run in fast engine,slow run in long life.i have done both on bikes and the first method gave the most power but the engine was worn out buy 18000 miles,(rings and valve guides worn )and the second engine was fine at the same milage and a mate has the bike and is fine still now at 23000 but it was slightly lower powered on dyno compaing the two (identical bikes) if it's a car i would drive it normally and not use any constant speed's and vary the loading to stop any heatspot's building in one area of the engine,and use cheap oil as fully synthetic wont let surfaces bed in properly,but thats my opinion

 

[Jonesy]

Whe you say slightly lower how much are you talking

 

[red reading]

8 bhp