Dual Master Cylinder
- Thread starter Trip
- Start date
Trip
New Member
It seems i am on my own on this :yawn:
I've been searching and looking into different options to address the following:
1) To have better control on the bias between front and rear.
2) In my opinion the standard setup does not give a good feedback to the driver.
3) When i upgraded to bigger calipers, the pedal travel has increased.
Upgrading the master cylinder was the simplest upgrade to decrease the pedal travel. A bigger bore M/C should in theory decrease the pedal travel at a cost of decreasing the pressure going to the calipers.
I looked into changing the whole pedal box to an aftermarket topmount but its kind of hard since there is the steering column attached to the original one. A floor mounted one would work out well i guess, but in my opinion, the drivers seat position isn't ideal for a floor mount pedal box.
I have decided to look further and yesterday i removed the master cylinder and servo (which was a pain with engine still in). Length wise (between firewall and engine) there is enough free space, but width wise, its a little thight with the throttle bodies in the way. I searched around and found this: http://944hybrids.pbworks.com/f/1248244745/TIL72-650.jpg
This is made by Tilton, and can accomodate a variety of master cylinder sizes. I will try and source one to see how it postions in the car.
Also, the brake pipes coming from each wheel would need to be T'ed together so a single supply will go per each master cylinder.
I've been searching and looking into different options to address the following:
1) To have better control on the bias between front and rear.
2) In my opinion the standard setup does not give a good feedback to the driver.
3) When i upgraded to bigger calipers, the pedal travel has increased.
Upgrading the master cylinder was the simplest upgrade to decrease the pedal travel. A bigger bore M/C should in theory decrease the pedal travel at a cost of decreasing the pressure going to the calipers.
I looked into changing the whole pedal box to an aftermarket topmount but its kind of hard since there is the steering column attached to the original one. A floor mounted one would work out well i guess, but in my opinion, the drivers seat position isn't ideal for a floor mount pedal box.
I have decided to look further and yesterday i removed the master cylinder and servo (which was a pain with engine still in). Length wise (between firewall and engine) there is enough free space, but width wise, its a little thight with the throttle bodies in the way. I searched around and found this: http://944hybrids.pbworks.com/f/1248244745/TIL72-650.jpg
This is made by Tilton, and can accomodate a variety of master cylinder sizes. I will try and source one to see how it postions in the car.
Also, the brake pipes coming from each wheel would need to be T'ed together so a single supply will go per each master cylinder.
watoga
Member
Hi Evan,
I have thought about the benefits of this in the past - particularly the ability to adjust the front/rear bias. However, I don't know of anyone who has accomplished this task, so perhaps you are the first guinea pig ;-)
As with most things GTiR related, if you have great success, we will all copy :-D
Please keep us posted with your quest...........
Dave
I have thought about the benefits of this in the past - particularly the ability to adjust the front/rear bias. However, I don't know of anyone who has accomplished this task, so perhaps you are the first guinea pig ;-)
As with most things GTiR related, if you have great success, we will all copy :-D
Please keep us posted with your quest...........
Dave
vss irvine
Well-Known Member
im doing this at some point, ill be fitting a floor mounted set up, but i either have to cut the floor out, or fit it on the left side and move the steering aswell
Trip
New Member
Cutting the floor out , you mean by removing the buldge from the drivers side ? If that can be removed, the drivers seat can be lowered and a floor mounted pedal box would be possible.
I say it would be very difficult to change the car to LHD just to upgrade the brakes. Firewall, wiring, brake pipes, steering rack, dash would need to be changed. It would be easier to re-shell with a LHD i guess
I say it would be very difficult to change the car to LHD just to upgrade the brakes. Firewall, wiring, brake pipes, steering rack, dash would need to be changed. It would be easier to re-shell with a LHD i guess
vss irvine
Well-Known Member
see this is where i disagree, the car im planning on doing it to would be be 1/4 mile only,
so there would be no dash, minimal wiring, and custom brake installation.
so the only 'hard' part would be mounting a lhd steering rack. fitting a floor mounted pedal box would make it easier.
im still thinking of cutting out the 'cat bump' on our trackcar, dont think it would be such a big job as ive got a fwd shell there that could donate its driver floorpan section.
ill take a grinder to it, then ill have no choice but to fix it!!
so there would be no dash, minimal wiring, and custom brake installation.
so the only 'hard' part would be mounting a lhd steering rack. fitting a floor mounted pedal box would make it easier.
im still thinking of cutting out the 'cat bump' on our trackcar, dont think it would be such a big job as ive got a fwd shell there that could donate its driver floorpan section.
ill take a grinder to it, then ill have no choice but to fix it!!
Trip
New Member
Granted.. If you are converting to LHD for other reasons, a floor mounted pedal box is the easier option. But i am sure you wouldn't want to go into all that hassle to convert to LHD just to be able to have a floor mounted pedal box. Also while at it, you can spare weight and go for a manual (light weight) LHD steering rack
Are the floor pan on the FWD car like ours apart from the buldge ? Since they are FWD, do they have the middle tunnel ? And would you have enough space to pass the exhaust pipe ?
Surely changing to a floor mounted pedal box is a lot of hassle for nothing if its just going to be a drag racing car :? Especially if it means you've got to convert it to LHD too :lol:
Trip
New Member
I managed to source a used Tilton bracket and two new M/C. I am just waiting for the rose joints, clevis and some other small parts to arrive. I will mock up a temporary bracket to check the clearance and functionalty. I have already draw on CAD the proper bracket, just need to verify all the dimensions and angles and off for CNC cutting.
Trondelond
Active Member
Oooo. I like this. 
vpulsar
Well-Known Member
A very interesting idea but I have to wonder WHY?, The Pulsar isn't a great track car or drag car for that matter, It has to many weaknesses.
As a drag car it is a fantastic little machine when standard to mildly tuned, But once you start adding real power the drive train just can't handle it.
As a track car again it's a fantastic little car for a bit of track fun but as a serious racer it just isn't well balance, It's far to short to be stable and can be very skittish in my experience.
Rob
As a drag car it is a fantastic little machine when standard to mildly tuned, But once you start adding real power the drive train just can't handle it.
As a track car again it's a fantastic little car for a bit of track fun but as a serious racer it just isn't well balance, It's far to short to be stable and can be very skittish in my experience.
Rob
Trip
New Member
thanks for your comments. My car isn't for track nor drag racing. Its just for hillclimb. In hillclimb having a short wheel base is ideal to better tackle the tight S bends we have. The weight distribution is a draw back on the pulsar but which AWD car hasn't this problem ?
I had bought my first pulsar around 4yrs ago and at the time the pulsar was up to my budget in terms of purchasing and modding. If i had to start all over today, i MIGHT consider a late 90's car such as an EVO or STI.
vpulsar
Well-Known Member
Now it might make sense hill climbing is quite a good sport for the little pulsar I've seen quite a few do very well just look a Stu in Scotland.
John
Trip
New Member
So i finally recieved most of the parts i was waiting for to make my first attempt to test fit inside the car.
and here is it just placed in its location.
If placed correclty at an angle to the firewall it will fit horizontally with enough clearance between the throttle body and the power steering hose coming out of the pump. This will add a new problem though. Since the Tilton piece i have is for vertical use, it rotates the m/c's 60deg, if i place it horizontally, the m/c's will end up sitting 30deg. I will use remote reservoirs so i guess it won't effect operation. we'll see
I have enough details and designed the bracket which will hold the Tilton piece to the firewall. I will proceed with my first laser cutting and hopefully i got it right first time. I ended up drawing the tilton piece too to get a proper view of the whole thing together.
Here is the bracket.
here is the tilton bracket
Here they are together.
It will consist of 4 pieces laser cut using 6mm steel and welded together to form the bracket. The tilton piece will be bolted to it using the lower 4 holes and the whole part will bolt using the original Brake servo holes on the firewall.
and here is it just placed in its location.
If placed correclty at an angle to the firewall it will fit horizontally with enough clearance between the throttle body and the power steering hose coming out of the pump. This will add a new problem though. Since the Tilton piece i have is for vertical use, it rotates the m/c's 60deg, if i place it horizontally, the m/c's will end up sitting 30deg. I will use remote reservoirs so i guess it won't effect operation. we'll see
I have enough details and designed the bracket which will hold the Tilton piece to the firewall. I will proceed with my first laser cutting and hopefully i got it right first time. I ended up drawing the tilton piece too to get a proper view of the whole thing together.
Here is the bracket.
here is the tilton bracket
Here they are together.
It will consist of 4 pieces laser cut using 6mm steel and welded together to form the bracket. The tilton piece will be bolted to it using the lower 4 holes and the whole part will bolt using the original Brake servo holes on the firewall.
