Change of front camber?

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pulsar_scott

Guest
Anyone know how I can change my front camber back to -0.5 degrees?

its at -1.5 just now and its killing my front tyres in 4-6 months. have been told I can get camber correction bolts but I havent been able to find any yet :(

Regards.

Scott.
 

Shaun

New Member
Hi mate,2 ways you can do it is either WhiteLine CamberBolts from somewhere like RallyNuts or Cusco or Tein PillowBall TopMounts.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
pulsar_scott said:
Anyone know how I can change my front camber back to -0.5 degrees?

its at -1.5 just now and its killing my front tyres in 4-6 months. have been told I can get camber correction bolts but I havent been able to find any yet :(

Regards.

Scott.
What have you done to make it -1.5degs in the first place?

That rate of tyre wear could be down to too much right foot wheel spinning the front, too much power steering use at no speeds.

OR

you've slammed the car so as well as your -ve camber increasing, your front's will toe out more and its the toe out that will normally kill your tyres in 4 - 6 months or less :shock:

If your toe has been perfect then a set of camber bolts are the easiest way to change upto a degree of camber

Jim
 
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pulsar_scott

Guest
Hi folks, ive replaced the std shocks with Koni inserts ( pain in the **** and a half to fit those btw) and run 17" BBS RZ wheels. nothing else done by me but the car does have RS-R lowering springs that are approx -20mm id say.

Have had nissan try to set the tracking etc and they say everything is fine except the camber.

Campbellju, you say i should aim for -1 degree instead of what nissan told me to get it right? (nissan techie said i should aim for -0.5 degrees)

Regards.
Scott.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
pulsar_scott said:
Hi folks, ive replaced the std shocks with Koni inserts ( pain in the **** and a half to fit those btw) and run 17" BBS RZ wheels. nothing else done by me but the car does have RS-R lowering springs that are approx -20mm id say.

Have had nissan try to set the tracking etc and they say everything is fine except the camber.

Campbellju, you say i should aim for -1 degree instead of what nissan told me to get it right? (nissan techie said i should aim for -0.5 degrees)

Regards.
Scott.
Hello scott,

If you were using your car as a 20K mile a year commuter than 0.5 degs might make a difference but if you were that worried about your tyres you'd have bought a vectra diesel with some 14" steelies and got it setup up for 0degs.

I go into this sort of stuff in more detail in my not quite finished handling setup guide but I'll pull a few bits out:

http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35820

Static camber
=========
Settings

Nissan OE
Front 0.45deg to -0.5deg
Rear 0.35 deg to -0.55deg


So Nissan are saying positive camber is okay :lol: :roll:
So Nissan are saying you should have more -ve camber on the back :lol: ;-)

Nissan are setting a range and the technician is pointing you to the right part of that range but treat it in its context that Nissan are selling a car that understeers slightly and doesn't kill tyres too quickly.


Toe on the other hand:

Nissan
Front toe in: 0deg to 22'
Rear Toe in: -6' to +18'

Nissan are again giving a range as practically speaking most people do not care enough about tyre life or handling to justify a technican spending hours adjusting toe to 1 minute. Practically speaking it is very difficult to measure and adjust toe or camber to 6' or 0.1degs anyway.

Nissan state upto 22' or 0.3degs toe in on the front that worst case will wear the outside edge but keep you pointed in a straight line. If its your inside edge and you are certain the front is not toeing out then it brings us back to camber.

I personally would want to see the print out as many years ago I had a problem were Toyota didn't do a setup properly and my rears used to last 6Kmiles. After a a few years I pulled out the laser alignment and found my rear toe was right on the limit and had never been corrected. Took it to another specialist and my tyre life doubled. MR2's run between -1 to -2degs on the rear too again keeping it in perspective.

What tyre pressures are you running? this will also have an effect on tyre wear and put a few more psi in will also help centralise tyre wear by rounding the tyre profile.

If you can, PM me the printed camber and toe front and rear along with what tyre pressures your're running bear in mind that different tyres prefer different pressures and your average garage system is between 5-10% accurate.

If everything is alright then it could be dynamic toe is causing a problem, meaning your ball joints, bushes, or tie rod ends could be on their way out/knackered casuing the car to toe out whilst driving forward. Now read again what I say about toe out.

It could be down to -0.5 degs of camber but if you really are killing a set of tyres in 4-6 months its is either too much right foot or you have a problem.

Cheers,
Jim
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
If possible do you have a before and after print out as the toe might be fine now but what was it?

ALSO :D

What is your rear camber? I assume you just have front camber adjustment bolts. If you set the front to -0.5deg and the rear are still around -1degs, it'll be understeer a go go ;-)
 
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pulsar_scott

Guest
Crikey mate, you know your stuff. Im afraid I dont have the printout as I had id done ages ago. Im phoning rallynuts tomorrow to ask about the camber bolts. I want to do this all before I get yet another set of tyres.

The rears seem absolutely fine as ive had the same set of tyres on the back for around 2.5 years and am more than happy with that. The driovers side lower arm was changed in the summer but other than that nothings been changed in the 4.5 years ive owned the car.

In your opinion, is it worth going to 16 inch wheels too? or is it possible to have a sweet handling setup on the 17's i have just now?

I remember the technician telling me about the ranges and seeing them on the printout so yeah I can understand why they would only want to do what their book tells them. I wouldnt mind going to -1 if you think that will help.

I will use all the info you have given me and see what happens dude.

PS im running 36psi asthats what the wee plaque on the door says (well in bar anyway)

Thankyou for spending a lot of time with me. I really appreciate it. Any more info you have would be greatly recieved :D

Scott.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
tyre pressures :nod:

Experience of car tyres wearing in complete cycle :nod:

Decent dampers and springs :nod:

Sensible sounding driver :nod:

Toe believed to be okay? When was the last time it was checked and was it before or after the last tyres went on?

Was the drivers side lower arm new and did it include the ball joint?

Camber bolts are £35 ish quid and not difficult to fit. Given that you've got a problem, it might be worth buying these and fitting them with maximum adjustment to take your camber from -1.5 to around -0.75. At least you can then rule this out.

Check there are no loose bolts on your front suspension?
Check your bottom ball joints?
Check your track rod ends?

As far as the 16" versus 17" argument. IMO, 15" are best for road use for various reasons. 16" are not as good and 17" again but I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Tyre choice is probably more important.
 
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pulsar_scott

Guest
The toe was checked just after I got a new pair of toyo T1-R's on the front. I did it after the tyres as the old tyres had worn on the inside but were perfect on the outsides so thought it would give me a false reading.

I want to go to 15's honest but my 310mm brakes wont let me :(

The bottom arm was a brand new unit with ball joint coz themot failed it on the ball joint. looking at the arm, i didnt think it was possible to change just the ball joint on its own :S

Im off work for 4 days (hooray!!) so i will check all the above and see if theres anything loose or worn.

Thanks mate.

Scott.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
I use 16" wheels for the same reason ;-)

The tyre wear is on both sides isn't it?

I bought 2 new front arms with all the bushes as I couldn't be bothered messing with popping out the old ones etc.

Other ideas, check your wheel is perfectly centered. try driving on a motorway at 85mph (Sometimes 70mph just doesn't cut it) and hold the wheel in your finger tips, any vibration? Does the wheel pull at all. Do the wheels track straight under hard braking? 80-30?

I hope it is just the camber but many people run a degree -ve camber without any consequences.

Good luck,
Jim
 
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pulsar_scott

Guest
Hi Jim. Ive recieved the camber bolts from rally nuts (whiteline). When you say tyre wear on both sides do you meanboth sidesof the car? or tyre?

I have ridiculous wear on the insides of both front tyres. The outsides are almost perfect.

The car tracks very well with no hands on the wheel up to and over 100mph

and i can also slam on the brakes from 80 andit will still track well.
The ABS kicks in too early though but i think this is because im effectively running on slicks in a straight line as it only becomes a problem in the wet.

Theres a really good alignment guy near me so Im going to see him when i get the new tyresand get him to set the correct camber ( will try -1)

Hopefully I can get back to some scooby and evo slaying round the crnersas well as just down the straights :D

Thanks mate.

Scott.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
pulsar_scott said:
The car tracks very well with no hands on the wheel up to and over 100mph.
:shock: :shock: Well officer, some bloke on a forum I've never met said... ;-) :lol: :oops:

All sounds good from what you've said at least.

Another thought is what width are your 17" alloys/tyres. If you're on 8J or 8.5J on 205/40 then this can parralellogram the tyre profile and can increase the effect of camber on tyre wear.

I've run -1.75degs on the front for a short while but on the road with similar 310mm I was forever locking up under braking. For my driving style and my car setup, my best compromise is 1deg to 1.5deg. Doesn't mean for you it won't be better set lower and for others higher.

Although its not very sexy, I'd be tempted to back off your camber as much as possible until you've worked out why you keep killing tyres. If you can get past 6months then the money saved you could alway use to increase it again and at the very least it will be a good learning experience on how significant changes in camber affect a cars handling.
 
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pulsar_scott

Guest
Hi mate. The wheels are bbs rz which i think are 7j wide so i dont think its the tyres being too narrow or the wheels being too wide.

Scott.
 
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