Rear brakes: Most aggresive pads?

[Jon Olds]

I have been watching vids of the last rally in my car and it is suffering too much front brake bias (locked wheels). As the front are working well
(300 discs, CP5200 AP calipers and DS3000), I want to increase the rear bite to match. At present it has std size discs and EBC yellowstuffs, as that's all I could find listed. The rears are definately not working hard enough as the discs look unblued, and the pads have hardly worn.

So;
1. Are their any agressive pads available for the rear, ideally not at a stupid price (ie £100++)?
2. Going to a bigger rear disc is an option, but I dont think it will solve the problem on its own. Any comment?
3. Fit a caliper with a smaller piston? Any know something close? I have machining facilities
4. Go 4 pots on the rear? Wilwood do a 4 pot with handbrake. Anybody done this?

Your thoughts appreciated,
Regards,
Jon

PS Searched thro the forum looking for similar threads, but didn't find any

 

[fubar andy]

My option is:

Braded brake lines all round
Mintex 1155 rear pads (£100)*
Black Diamond rear grooved discs (£100)*

That should help even out the bias.

If that’s not enough you could always buy a 300mm rear disc conversion from some of the members that are offering such items.

I'd also get rid of the DS3000 pads they are too aggressive and although they offer good braking grip that can be your undoing.

With 4WD braking systems you are best keeping the same compound of brake pad all round

After much testing on track, I find this is fine for my use, I might opt for a 300mm rear kit later down the line, but only when I needs its needed.


*Prices are approximate depending where you shop around.

 

[ashills]

carbotech is your best bet on the the evos i tried all the mintex stuff and it was rubbish (was on the fronts though)
change to carbotech never got fade once and the xp10s had brilliant bite to them

 

[npulsar]

i would go for ebc yellow pad's. all round with goodridge line's all round.
but if still not happy i would say 300mm rear kit work's a treat for me and other
member's with big bhp r's on track.ie mr gtir also recommend having big rear kit.

 

[Tim]

Bias adjuster?

 

[Jon Olds]

Thanks guys. I have used DS3000 for quite a while. I rate them. We get to use pukka tarmac rally tyres that work like a cut slick.
The single venue rally's I do tend to use chicanes to slow the cars. A major pain, as you spend half the rally standing on the brakes to scrub 60mph off, before nailing it to get back to speed...
The front braking is fine, I dont want to degrade it. The fronts generate a massive amount of heat, the pads last 3-5 rally's and all is well.
Will try the pads suggested, cant be any worse than the ebc yellows.
A bias adjuster: dont think it will help, as I need more rear bias, and I want to maintain the existing front bite.
Bigger discs? A percentage improvement? I'm looking for an 'order' of improvement
Comments listened to, and appreciated,
Jon

 

[olliecast]

As ashills said jon, my evo 3 brakes with xp10 pads were far better than my currrent willwood setup (soon as the pads wear they`re getting xp10`s),
when my pads go on the back , although they`re not cheap, i`ll be using xp10`s

 

[Jon Olds]

Carbotech xp10's then. Best price! Where from?

 

[olliecast]

http://www.carbotech-europe.com/

 

[Jon Olds]

cheers, I had been on there and they are not listed as a part no. Only 'call' which I will do Monday.

 

[ashills]

if ur on the mlr speak to thetyrant he works there names ian top bloke

 

[fubar andy]

carbotech is your best bet on the the evos i tried all the mintex stuff and it was rubbish (was on the fronts though)

This is what I see too often, that people rubbish off pads because their finds are on the fronts and not as a whole package (not using the same compound all round).

I moved away from front 55's to DS2500 and with Redstuff on the rears

Even when I added CarboTech pad to the fronts it still wasn't enough due to the rears not working in conjunction with the CarboTech (wrong grip levels).

After a little research I found that many competitive 4WD cars run the same pad and compound all round to stabilise the car and offer predictable braking.

Whether it’s Yellowstuff, Mintex or CarboTech, if you run the same compound all round it will work much better than using different brands and compounds.

 

[ashills]

i did have mintex front and rear but the mintex were rubbish i was doing a tresure hunt type thing with the mlr through the lanes and came to a cross roads planted the brakes and there were none they had cooked
with the same rear but carbotechs on the fronts i was quite happy braking from 165 down the bruntingthorpe run way on stock two pot calipers and the same at totb

 

[Jon Olds]

Agree it would be nice to have matched sets. I have this on my rally Golf. But I dont believe there is a supplier at present that has a pad to compete with the DS3000, performance and price. I have tried quite a few. Single venue tarmac rallying is very hard on brakes. Going to talk to carbotech rep tommorrow and see what they recommend.

May yet put a pair of wilwood 4 pots on the back. Nothing comes close on value for money, as they sell a massive no. of units in the states. Use dynalites on the golf and the pads are only 50 quid ish

 

[fubar andy]

But I dont believe there is a supplier at present that has a pad to compete with the DS3000, performance and price.

Have you spoken to Ferodo direct and see if they re-pad your old rear backing plates?

I know CarboTech, Mintex will do that for you, I'm confident that Ferodo should be able to do the same

i tried all the mintex stuff and it was rubbish (was on the fronts though)

i did have mintex front and rear

So which one was it? :roll:

 

[stumo]

So which one was it? :roll:

and in what brake setup?

 

[ashills]

right sorry go into super detail for next to no point
i had mintex 1155s all round on the evo 1 and braking was pants as said
swapped the fronts to carbotech xp10s and was very very good and guys have even had the discs glowing on track with good performance from the brakes
the rears were mintex both times and the amount of actual braking they do is next to nothing, but the xp10s are a lot better pad than mintex and ebc shite so if ur looking for the best biting pad the xp10s would be my choice

 

[Jon Olds]

Hadn't thought of the backing plate idea. Talked to the guy that designed the 'DS3000 endurance' variant at the autosports show. Quite enlightening. After going round the houses on wear rates, cost, bit, endurance, ended the short conversation on deciding the ds3000 ordinary's were best. Tried the mintex options and they are not in the same league. So carbontech's first, then ds3000 material on my backplates, then wilwood 4 pots

 

[ashills]

yeah if they havent got them on the shelf send ian ur old back plates and they can cut to suit

 

[Jon Olds]

I'm never one to follow the flock, so have just ordered wilwood 4 pot caliper (rally design (120+10+VAT)) with built in handbrake
capability. I'll let you know when it arrives, and I figure out how to mount it.

May be 150's worth of mistake, but what the hell...