increase castor using n15 lower arms

warpspeed

Well-Known Member
You are expecting someone to give you dimensions of a rare item for you to replicate and start selling and you are taking offense because you haven't been given those dimensions.

Never once have you said you planned to make them to sell until I said it to you, that is underhanded behaviour.
You have complained that you aren't being given the dimensions, that's rude.

And if your taking offense at what I'm saying above then whatever, I don't care for your ethics and attitude.
 

STU666V

Active Member
Similar thing with my evo gearbox conversion.
A few boys has asked for my drawing I made up for the bellhousing adapter.
No one gave me any information on this and I had to draw it up and get it machined myself.
No people are asking for the drawing or the cad drawing for it.

Ain't going to happen.
 

RO_SUNNY

Active Member
I will just quote myself......where is this ''underhanded behaviour''???

''Private....hm this is not nice due to the fact that the GtiR is very underrated car and all upgrades will be nice.
On other forums I have never seen this kind of secrecy and (i will repeat myself) it will be nice if more parts were produced for our beloved cars!''

And by the way....that was wrote for you specifically, it was just a general conclusion!

But.......you keep being rude to me!
And here is where I will stop polluting this thread!

Have a nice day!
 

warpspeed

Well-Known Member
''Private....hm this is not nice due to the fact that the GtiR is very underrated car and all upgrades will be nice.
On other forums I have never seen this kind of secrecy and (i will repeat myself) it will be nice if more parts were produced for our beloved cars!''
The owner of the arms has already asked if owners would like sets of these arms made so why would you need the dimensions unless you planned to make them yourself and undercut his prices?

Not declaring that you intended to make the arms yourself to sell is underhanded....as seems to be the way with so many people in the gtir 'scene'
You say "it will be nice if more parts were produced for our beloved cars!", so put your name down for a replica set from the owner of the original arms! Then fit them to your car and don't copy them to sell on at someone else's expense......

By the way, I'm not being rude to you but I can be if you want?
 

Mad

Well-Known Member
If the person chooses to share the information or not it is entirely upto them.

I must say I would be pretty pissed off If I shared information on here for someone to go out and make a profit from it.
 

RO_SUNNY

Active Member
This went a lot far than needed. I never said I want to buy anything! I was just curious what needs to be modified!
Now.....reading from the begining I saw that Danny said that if peopla are interested he will make them. That's good.....but I am not a copier....and I don't remember copying anyone!
Danny terribly sorry if I offended you in any way!
Scott.....sorry for being in your way!
 

warpspeed

Well-Known Member
@ Warspeed
You are correct, but I am not making a lot of money out of it....so what all the fuss about?
You do not want to buy anything but you want the dimensions to make arms to sell yourself.....that is what I have a problem with and it doesn't matter who it is that owns the arms or who wants the info my view is still the same, its underhanded.

In my way?? Your not in my way at all Bogdan.
 

RO_SUNNY

Active Member
Mate if I want to do adjustable arms I'll do them.....without copying anything from anyone!
It easy....just 2 tubes with rose balls at the end and connected to eachother!

But.......when you will se me copying something please let me know!
Until than....you have a nice evening!
 

KieranEG6

Member
I have no intention of making or selling any such arms as copies, purely wanted to know the details of what I would be getting If I were to commit to purchasing the items. To be honest I would much rather buy a set than make some if they will give results to what I was looking to do. Saying something will increase a Geo measurement in suspension terms is fairly pointless without knowing by how much. But I was just given no specific answer and told its private info.

Would you buy a set of Custom Coilovers without any info on spring rates etc.... just a claim for them to be copies of some special rally car?? No I don't think so.
 

The Doc

Moderators
Staff member
Always the same, a minority ruins it for the majority. Believe what you like, i know what i have and from where and with paperwork and previous owners testimony to prove.
 

KieranEG6

Member
Believe what?? We are not in church questioning faith.

I really don't get the issue here. I simply wanted to know what I would be buying, so I would know if they suited my setup or not. I am not going to buy something if its going to give me 9Deg castor, 3Deg camber and 30mm extra track a side no matter what car it came off or was designed for.

A simple confirmation that they would increase Caster, Camber, Wheelbase or Track By approximately "X" amount would have done. There is no Magic Secret formula when it comes to Geo. There are so many effects from Personal preference, driver ability and about 1 million other variables in car setup from tyres and spring rates to how fat your arse is.
 

stugtir300

Active Member
Now now ladies,its as if your bitching about who invented the wheel,put your hand bags down an kiss and make up,its like being in the school playground for christ sake.
 

Mad

Well-Known Member
I think this has gotten very off topic.

Bottom line is this, Doc may make some copies and sell them on. If he makes money from them fair enough. If he chooses not to say the specs before he has even put them up for sale then fair enough.

To tell everyone the specs before he has even put them up for sale is like asking Ferrari to give details of their newest hybrid technology before they even released the car, albeit on a much larger scale than some suspension parts.

The point is if you don't like it, don't buy them, having a moan at someone because they don't want to share their investment or hard work just ain't right
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
To get the thread back on track.

Standard caster is about 0 to 1deg
Whiteline bush adds about 1deg of caster getting you up to 2deg total
My mod from ages ago added an additional 3deg of caster which gave me 4.5deg (About the same as a modern shopping trolley car). This mod might not be allowed for some categories of racing though so isn't for everyone. Many people have added this much caster and been very happy.

The problem was I wanted more caster with independent camber adjustability along with a means to adjust the KPI (King Pin Inclination)so I cut out moved back position of the top mounts.

This was extreme but gave me up to 8deg of caster and I found 6.5deg worked well as a road car (About the same as a modern evo).

@ Kieran, I don't know where the N15 arms will fit into this range. As a simple guide, you move the top mount back 10mm you add about 1deg of caster. Without checking the bottom arm I would expect it to have a similar affect. If you move the control arm forward 30mm to get the equivalent of the top mount mod caster it might cause rubbing.

If the arms increase the front track you might get rid of the rubbing or make it worse. Either way it will also increase the KPI which makes for a less feelsome car. Not important for a track car but it will make the steering less feelsome.

To know if you like the impact of the increased track, you can always throw on some spacers and see if you like the car more or less. I did and didn't like the compromise on wet roads.

Do you have the N15 arms to hand and how do their dimensions compare with the standard arms? This is more relevant than comparing them to an NME arm that may have a different hub anyway.

What works in theory doesn't always work in practice, what works for one person may not work for another. If in doubt, have a go and let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Jim
 

keastygtir

Well-Known Member
Guys

I not really in a position to offer any advice on the technical side of things because I don't have the skills or experience of the rest of you.
From a perspective of driving my own car I would agree that an N15 based solution could provide the best road car experience. As we all know on these cars incorrect geo makes the car feel very weird indeed.

In terms of people making things I would agree that the more parts and upgrades that are available for the community is a very good thing but we should be mindful that these ideas and advancements are the work of the individuals, developed in their own time and that should be respected and rewarded in the community.

We want people to share ideas and developments that improve the car for all owners and we don't want to discourage that IMO
 

STU666V

Active Member
Suspension Basics

Corner entry understeer
*Increase front compression.
*Increase front toe-out.

Corner entry oversteer
*Increase rear rebound.
*Reduce rear ride-height.

Steady state understeer (All turns or low-speed turns only)
*If front tire temps are optimum and rears are low, stiffen rear anti-roll bar; if front temps are too hot, soften front (most likely).
*If front tire pressures are optimum, decrease rear tire pressure. Increase if chunking occurs.
*Improper front camber.
*Too much body roll at front, causing excessive camber change.

Steady state under steer (High-speed turns only)
*If front tire temps are OK, increase front down force
*If front tire temps are too hot, reduce rear down force

Steady state over steer (All turns or low-speed turns only)
*If rear tire temps are optimum with fronts too low, stiffen front anti-roll bar; if rear temps too hot, soften rear anti-roll bar (most likely).
*If rear tire pressures are optimum, decrease front tire pressure. Increase if chunking occurs.
*Improper rear camber.

Steady state oversteer (High-speed turns only)
*If rear tire temps are OK, increase rear down force.
*If rear tire temps are too hot, reduce front down force.

Corner exit understeer
*Increase rear compression dampening.
*Reduce front rebound dampening.

Corner exit oversteer
*Increase rear rebound dampening.
*Reduce rear toe-in, no rear toe-out.

Straightline instability
*Tire pressure is too low in one or more tires.
*Increase positive front caster.
*Reduce front toe-in, no toe-out in rear.

Straightline speed too slow
*Reduce overall down force.
*Too much toe-in or toe-out, reduce.
*Lower ride height.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

splmum

Active Member
Now that's really chucked a cat amongst the pigeons.
You do this, it changes that, you do that it changes this, then double that and halve this, so you double this and halve that.
Jebus, and they thought the hokey-pokey was hard.
But I have to admit, that has to be the best explanation of suspension tuning I have seen.
 
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