***Stainless Steel Manifolds for the R - coming soon***

Hkondakci

Member
I understood from a very fine SS welder that using T316 on exhaust parts isn't quite right since theis grade SS is prone to fail after repeate warming up and cooling down; the molucule structure of this SS isn't quite meant for that. On the other hand is will stay for ever shiney 8) T304 for exhaust parts, should be best, but can eventually rust :cry: I see this on my own manifold.

rgds
habib
 

Nad

Active Member
Ideally IMO you want to use as mild a steel as possible yet rated to take the temps required so that it is ductile enough not to crack. Too higher carbon content and it will crack all day.

Im sticking with the standard manifold and putting and external wastegate on it. Im doing this for reliability over power.
 
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MarkMc

Guest
Steamed pipe stainless manifold(coated) are not meant to crack. There made up of little joins then polished smooth(inside and out). There not meant to crack and good for mounting bigger heavier turbo’s and waste gates etc…

Mark
 
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MarkMc

Guest
Nad Croydon made a manifold for my R. It initially started with what looks like lots of small bits of pipe (thick walls, I’d guess 3 to 6 mm) joined together. Not sure if they are precast. I think they called it stainless steam pipe. Looked messy to start with, but every couple of weeks you’d go back and they would be smoothing it out both inside and out. Eventually when it was finished looked like a work of art both inside and out. They got it finished in some special coating(black) too(HPC or similar). They said I could have gone with shiny after market manifold from a big name, but it would be forever cracking.

Cheers

Mark
 

ashills

Active Member
u mean the plumbing bends these are very good to use if ur not worried about apperance as tehy are very strong and will last forever
to buy these fittings in some shops is very expensive over here as i was gonna buy 8 bends in 1 1/2 inch and they wanted 150 quid (nearly had heart failure lol) if u can get from a trade place they are very cheap and make very good manifolds just wont suit the people who want a bling manifold lol
 

Nad

Active Member
Mark, yeah they are the same sort of pipes, which I believe are precast, hence they wont crack as easy as they havent been stressed by bending.
 
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Little Erve

Guest
I don't see the point of a Stainless manifold.

Stainless has higher thermal expansion, putting stress on other parts. Sure it's good at insulating heat but a mild steel HPC coated (outside only) manifold would be the same.

The other problem people aren't mentioning is that stainless pipe needs to be gas purged when welded (if you want it done properly). Otherwise you get excessive oxidation of the weld bead on the inside, which could lead to pitting corrosion (and eventually holes in the manifold due to eddys forming in the gas flow).

"Steam pipe" is just a chromoly alloy of mild steel, which would be the best alloy to use.
 

nismoboy

New Member
Surry said:
I've read that a standard item with a little enlarging of the ports is good for 400bhp
This is true, my standard manifold (with some porting and an external wastgate welded on) was more than adequate for 391 hp at the hubs on the thor dynopack, even if the engine didnt last (but this wasnt the manifolds fault) and was due to the mapping.

Jon
are u sure u mean at the hubs :?: or at the flywheel :?: cos if u mean hubs that works out to 470bhp at the fly :shock:
 

boucherie

New Member
right ive spoken to my mate and got the following info about the product and the capabilities of the welder. If after reading this you would be interested in one please leave your name, and state if you are after a stainless or mild steel one. Once i have some interest a group price can be arranged. Both mild and stainless will have the option of being heatwrapped if you prefer.

report as follows.....
 

boucherie

New Member
We are currently considering upping our material thickness to please the crowds. Although it offers no advantage in terms of crack prevention.

Cracks only form at stress raisers or at 'as manufactured' defects. If a weld is imperfection free and designed correctly it will not crack. For a weld to just break the manifold must be loaded above its design ability. The combination of thermal loading and gas pressure on a manifold/stainless steel is not enough to do this. Working at a where I do we have stainless pipework exposed to unbelievable service conditions. Several hundred degrees, containing water flows of around 0.5Tonnes/second, and pressures of 150bar, thats the ability of stainless!

By using a thicker pipe the weld depth will have to increase. Going from 1mm to 3mm pipe for example gives triple the weld depth. Assuming that the aspect ratio of the weld (width to height) remains constant (probalby 1.5ish) then the width of weld will increase with increasing pipe thickness. This increase in weld width, together with increased heat application will give a larger HAZ (Heat affected Zone). This HAZ is the area in which the grain structures of the material has been changed, and it is beneficial to minimise this area. The smaller the weld the better, thats why laser welding is so popular typical aspect ratios can be around 10-12, that means for a 1mm thick weld the width is 1/10mm!

By using a thin material we would use a Tig welded root bead. The root bead is the first weld in an weld procedure, and it would be very uncommon (almost never) that a weld be made up of only one run/bead. The root bead would be autogenous i.e. no filler rod would be used, and only the parent metal would be used to fuse together and form the weld pool. This method has three main advantages.

1. In order to obtain an imperfection free high quality weld the filler rods have to be meticulousely clean. When welding the root bead if using a filler rod, surface impurities on the rod that are dragged into the weld may cause an imperfection. By using only the parent metal for the root bead you are insured that the weld is of high quality as the two mating weld preps fuse together to form the root bead.

2. You can get no better filler material than the parent. By using the actual manifold material to weld you are insuring that the root bead is perfectly matched mettalurgically. This alleviates any potential residual stresses in the root bead that may be present if using incorrectly matched homogenous welding techniques.

3. The inner surface of the weld will be much higher quality using thin walled than thicker walled. As the weld has a much smaller width and depth the inside of the weld will be smoother and much tighter packed. This is difficult to expalin without drawing aids.

The process would be completed by running a final bead of filler rod over the top. This further adds to the strength of the weld by stitching the two ends of pipe together and gives a more aesthetically pleasing weld finish.

All welds will also be argon purged. This further inhances the inside finish of the pipe and insures proper penetration of the weld and zero oxidation in the weld pool. It is just as importnat to keep out gaseous impurities as solid ones.

I'm afraid thats my best stab at explaining it. I'm not the welder. I have CC'd him on this e-mail so I am sure he will correct me where I've slipped up. Once the website is up and running I will give you the address and you can let the GTiR lads know.

Another point worth adding. The welder has previousely worked at PPR at silverstone, manufacturing exhausts for cars ranging from Porsche, NSX, to Formula 3, all using 16swg stainless with no cracks or returns.

We may also consider using mild steel as a secondary range for heavily tuned cars as these are much easier to make and extremely durable in thermal fatigue situations.

any questions please ask, and il pass them on for you
 

donpulsar

South Yorkshire Regional Rep
Certainly interested in the mild steel (coated) or stainless steel manifold. All sounds good, but cost is an important point, as we all aren't made of money. Any ideas on cost yet :?:

Cheers,

donpulsar :)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
what flange will it have on it, will it be t25 or t3

will he be able to do one for the big boys :lol: (the ones that will have to run an external wastegate :twisted: )
 
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