Is 700cc Overkill?

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Jon T

Guest
I want new injectors, but I'm only eventually heading for 400bhp (If/When my engine explodes).. Until then I'll be aiming for ~350 at 1.2 bar on a norris turbo when mine expires.

Would it be better to get 500/534/555's instead?

Thanks,
Jon.

(If you've noticed I was selling, Im keeping it now but only driving it at weekends and week's off work. Saves a bit of money for now.)
 
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antilag

Guest
700's are fine dont limit your fueling by spending the same money on a set of injectors that might max out at a later stage cos u say u want this and that not but later your plans could change :wink:
 
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AJ4

Guest
I would disagree and say always use the smallest injector possible that you can get away with ( better atomisation ). Also, large injectors are pretty rubbish at lower duty cycles, ie at idle, and tend to dribble rather than spray ;)

My personal preference is for one inboard 440cc and one outboard 440cc ( 8 injectors in total... ;) )
 
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antilag

Guest
yeh i no wat your saying but 700cc injectors arnt exactly massive and alot easy to install then doing the eight injectors i dnt think 700's spray pattern is much different its wen u get to around the thousands u start to see the dribbling
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
My personal preference is for one inboard 440cc and one outboard 440cc
Why don't you see people using external injectors anymore. 5-10 years ago they were the trend and many of the fuel controllers still support them. Just seems to make sense to me to have 4 injectors for your everyday drive and then another couple that are only used on boost. :twisted:

Can anyone remeber why this isn't done anymore :?:
 
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AJ4

Guest
No reason apart from the fact that its easier to just fit larger injectors than custom mount another fuel rail and fuel controller. I still reckon two small injectors will perform better than one large injector due to better atomisation.
 

Hkondakci

Member
I agree with Ross here, but for us mere mortals usually getting the less costly and hence most effective will be the way to go; swapping injectors every tuning stage would be a very cost ineffective way; also 700cc injectors are not overkill; getting 1000cc would though 8)

rgds
habib
 
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Sirnixalot

Guest
Ross said:
No reason apart from the fact that its easier to just fit larger injectors than custom mount another fuel rail and fuel controller. I still reckon two small injectors will perform better than one large injector due to better atomisation.
all else being equal yes however there is the air velocity at different parts of the intake runner and the effect of having one injector behind the other in such close quarters...the first injector will spray directly into the path of the next injector....making the twin injector setup null because fuel is spraying onto fuel.

the best way would be side by side
Twin injectors also takes up a little more volume in the intake manifold runners....

all this has to be taken into account as well but as i said...i do agree with you on the atomization....all else being equal 8)
 
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AJ4

Guest
I'm going to take out the intake a little bit to account for the extra injector disruption and choke it down a little bit after the throttle to get the speed up a bit. I'm planning on having the second injector about 4 inches back from the lower one so I don't think it will cause too many problems.

Basically I just want to try something different ( hence the supercharger as well rather than turbo ). It would be a really boring world if everyone had a black pulsar, on 17's, with an hks blah turbo and a blah manifold and a etc etc. I know there is a lot said for going with the crowd and use tried and tested methods, but.... :D
 
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Sirnixalot

Guest
fair enough but you wont be able to get the same results. If you get a pulley that will run say 1 bar @ 6000rpm you will make 0.5bar @ 3000rpm with a centrifugal type. Here a turbo would be a better choice. With a roots you get positive boost from just past idle but it is limited in airflow capabilities @ high rpm. The screw type is the best of the supercharger world as it has the roots boost just off idle personality with the ability to keep the flow going at high rpms.

What type of supercharger are you going for?

Roots(eaton), cetrifugal(vortech, paxton) or screw type (whipple/autorotor)?

If centrifugal, are you going to fabricate a drive shaft for it to place it on the passenger side of the engine bay?

if roots or screw will you integrate it into the intake manifold like they are normally done or will you mount it outboard?

also you maynot be able to support much hp with the roots or screw if they are integrated into the intake manifold as adding an intercooler is a bit tough. Water injection is helpfull though.

if you want some ideas take a look at www.flyinmiata.com they have a few pix of their new autorotor (screw type) setup for the miatas.
also see www.vortechsuperchargers.com for a few pix of their shaft driven units...look at the honda kits

good luck
 
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AJ4

Guest
Thanks for the advice, I thought everyone would just jump in and take the piss ! :D

I'm using a Whipple twin screw, makes full boost at 2500 rpm at will go to 29 psi if I overdrive it a bit :shock: 8)

I am mounting it where the aircon pump used to be, theres a nice space for it and the pulley will line up nicely. At the mo I am using a Forge front mount, but with the charger I will go back to top mount again and try and get a high flow custom one made. I already have WI.

The best bit is having a nice off the shelf 4 branch manifold without all the plumbing hassle of a big turbo :D

Cheers for the good luck and the links, I'm gonna need it :(
 
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AJ4

Guest
forgot to say, I'm going for the JWT 2.4, so am going all out for low down torque and don't intend revving it too high anyways ( Nad will love it ;) ). I've got a Tomei 2.2 at the mo, just looking for a spare engine to build the 2.4 into now :(
 
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Sirnixalot

Guest
well...i think a water to air (charge cooler as you brits say) setup would be a shorter and easier IC piping run albeit a little more involving to setup
 

Tony

Member
i think they use air injectors in the cossie world for boost control (i think)
i`ve read about them in a fast ford mag(sorry)



Tony....
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
Air injectors?? Would that be a fancy name for NOS? Its the only air (gas) I can see the point of injecting. Either that or just liquird nitrogen which would equivalent to a WI system (But I might have made that last bit up) :wink:
 
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purplemonster

Guest
i have seen them on rally cross cossies to control the boost
 
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