Front Right Tyre Wearing Rapidly on inside! Got aligment print out & camber adj bolts

[olliecast]

Hi everybody,
Hope all you gurus can help me
My drivers side tyre is rapidly wearing on the inside and i`ve just had a 4 wheel alignment done aswell (thought it would stop it, but to no avail, its still wearing)
see drivers and passenger wheel pics below:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/olliecast/driverstyre.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/olliecast/passengerstyre.jpg

I`ve posted the 4 wheel alignment work done in the link below:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/olliecast/alignment.jpg


Now i`ve noticed that my camber adjustment bolts are not equal (i bought the car with them on). Should these be equal ?? i.e. the tabs are not in the same position,
links to photo`s below,

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/olliecast/drivers.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb65/olliecast/passengers.jpg

should the two tabs be at an equal position on both sides (i`ve read that some can loose their setting)
if so is it just a case of jacking up the car and adjusting the drivers side one?
have i got really confused and need to do something very different?

Cheers in advance,
ollie

 

[Keira]

the whiteline camber bolts, take them off and throw them in the bin, then get some one else to look at the alignment

 

[olliecast]

are these definately the whiteline ones then?

should the setting be equal then either side? (regardless of how effective they are!!!)

 

[Keira]

yeah they are whiteline ones, the tag/washer has a lug that locates on the cam of the bolt iirc.

its position depends on the way they have been set ( i think :lol i hate the bloody things and when you take them out you will see why, kmac do much better ones

 

[olliecast]

thats fair enough.
should the alignment check have picked up the camber error?

 

[bracpan]

I doubt if it is camber, much more chance of it being your toe in/out, are the front wheels set to parrallel? if not they should be as it sounds as if they are toeing out to scrub the inside of the tyre...the one thing that wears tyres is scrubbing and/ or hard cornering and yours are being scrubbed on the inside so its more likely to be the allignment. Its takes ages for a tyre to wear by just having to much camber. But will wear quick if its scrubbed. Also check wheel bearings, ball joints bushes etc for wear. Looking at your settings you should have toe in on the rear and parrallel on the front yours is the other way around. Your Camber is also all to **** and you could do with a lot more castor as well.. try and find a garage that can set all 3..

 

[olliecast]

I doubt if it is camber, much more chance of it being your toe in/out, are the front wheels set to parrallel? if not they should be as it sounds as if they are toeing out to scrub the inside of the tyre...the one thing that wears tyres is scrubbing and/ or hard cornering and yours are being scrubbed on the inside so its more likely to be the allignment. Its takes ages for a tyre to wear by just having to much camber. But will wear quick if its scrubbed. Also check wheel bearings, ball joints bushes etc for wear. Looking at your settings you should have toe in on the rear and parrallel on the front yours is the other way around. Your Camber is also all to **** and you could do with a lot more castor as well.. try and find a garage that can set all 3..

well aparantly this was a proper all singing 4 wheel drive check. so surely they should`ve done it?
do you think the alignment setting are incorrect that they have done then?

 

[Keira]

i think phils trying to say its aload of sh!t..

p.s im not saying the camber bolts are causing it, but get rid of them as they really are cr@p

looking at the alignment, they didn't appear to do alot tbh

 

[rayman75]

what size are the wheels? my old 17's used to wear excessively on the inside. but since i have gone to 15's i have had no problems.

 

[olliecast]

what size are the wheels? my old 17's used to wear excessively on the inside. but since i have gone to 15's i have had no problems.

hi mate, they are 17`s and i`m looking to change to 15`s/16`s anyway very soon. How quick were your wearing?

Does anybody have some recomended setting them so that i don`t see this amount of wear?

 

[olliecast]

car is now ready for a new set of front tyres. rears are wearing spot on though. Do you think i could just get the tracking on the front done (as it only the front that is wearing bad on the inside)

 

[Braveheart]

hi mate, they are 17`s and i`m looking to change to 15`s/16`s anyway very soon. How quick were your wearing?

Does anybody have some recomended setting them so that i don`t see this amount of wear?

Here's some setting:

From a Wheel Alignment Machine Handbook in Sweden
---------------------------------------------------

For a 1991 - 1993 Sunny / Pulsar GTI-R N14

Where d = degrees

Front
----- Min Max
Left Toe 0 d 03' 0 d 09'
Right Toe 0 d 03' 0 d 09'
Total Toe 0 d 06' 0 d 18'
Set Back ******* ******

Left Camber -0 d 39' 0 d 50'
Right Camber -0 d 39' 0 d 50'
Camber Diff. ******* 0 d 30'

Left Caster 0 d 30' 2 d 00'
Right Caster 0 d 30' 2 d 00'
Caster Diff. ******* 0 d 30'


Rear
----
Min Max
Left Toe -0 d 03' 0 d 08'
Right Toe -0 d 03' 0 d 08'
Total Toe -0 d 06' 0 d 16'
Thrust Line ******* *******

Left Camber -0 d 55' 0 d 34'
Right Camber -0 d 55' 0 d 34'

Also see http://www.yahoogroups.com/files/gti-r/ALIGNM1.jpg as tested on a Sun 4-wheel alignment machine ... the handwritten note is by the machine operator,

 

[JARS PulsR]

As Keira suggested I'd just throwaway the crappy whiteline camber bolts.

Compare your alignment to mine and you'll see how badly your camber and castor is out of alignment. :shock:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/JARS655/Pulsar_GTi-R/torque_developments_printout001_cro.png

As standard these can't be adjusted, and so on mine they just adjusted the toe-in/toe-out (as it seems they did on yours).

I'd recommend going and getting another 4-wheel alignment again (preferably by a different technician), but make sure you get rid of those whiteline bolts first!!

FYI, I'm on the standard 14" rims and 195/55 rubber, although I plan to change this to some decent 15's or 16's by the summer :-D

Also note the recommend adjustment limits on each setting; as detailed on the printout, these are very close to those which Braveheart listed so are probably correct.

 

[antgtir]

JARS PulsR - If the guys that did the alignment on yours were out to obtain a parralel reading then they actually made your car worse, its gone from 1 minute out to 10. Plus from 2 minutes on the rear to 6.

Your camber setting isn't equal on both sides either but im not sure you had them do that.

olliecast - Your camber and alignment seems fine to me however the N/S (passenger side) rear camber seems to be out a substantial amount. However with this im pretty sure it wouldn't have the effect of causing wear on the inside edge of your drivers front. I would maybe just take a little look at the bushes and bearings on the front wheel to ensure there isn't any excessive play in them, this could potentially give you an isolated wear pattern such as that you are experiencing.

I personally would try this first rather than remove the whiteline bolts and mess your setup again. you can always keep an eye on the wear or even isolate the problem to worn bushes or bearings etc.

Good luck,

Ant.

 

[olliecast]

olliecast - Your camber and alignment seems fine to me however the N/S (passenger side) rear camber seems to be out a substantial amount. However with this im pretty sure it wouldn't have the effect of causing wear on the inside edge of your drivers front. I would maybe just take a little look at the bushes and bearings on the front wheel to ensure there isn't any excessive play in them, this could potentially give you an isolated wear pattern such as that you are experiencing.

I personally would try this first rather than remove the whiteline bolts and mess your setup again. you can always keep an eye on the wear or even isolate the problem to worn bushes or bearings etc.

Good luck,

Ant.

is the best way to check by just jacking up the front of the car and give the wheel and/or suspension a wobble? i`ve noticed a slight knocking when going over bumps on that side thinking of it, and it rumbles when going around a left hand corener. could the wheel bearing knock slightly if worn? is it a hub off job to replace?

 

[youngsyp]

I second Phil's (bracpan) sentiments. It will take a long time for excessive negative camber to wear the tyre edge.
With regards to the caster, that's all he'd get on the stock set up. Afaik, it's not adjustable from stock.
The camber at each end isn't much to worry about either. Even though the figures look big, in reality, the front is 9 minutes different (60 minutes in a degree) and the rear is 15 minutes difference. On the road, you wouldn't notice that.
Having said that, if the technician was any good, he'd have been able to nail every setting perfectly.
The toe settings look good but, I'd be tempted to set the front wheels to parallel as, I also found my front tyres wore excessively on the inner edges, with 0.05 degree of toe out.
Of course, this will degrade the initial turn in characteristics of the front end so, you might consider raising the toe out at the rear ?! Or, just reducing the toe out at the front.

And as has been mentioned, bin the adjustment bolts and go for some adjustable pillowball topmounts.

Paul

 

[youngsyp]

Compare your alignment to mine and you'll see how badly your camber and castor is out of alignment. :shock:

You camber at both ends is actually much further out that his.
There's 60 minutes in a degree, not 100. so, you're front camber is out by 35 minutes (more than half a degree), side to side and your rear camber is out by 29 minutes (or near as damn it half a degree) side to side.
To compound that, your right side rear is in a state of positive camber and the left side rear in a state of negative camber.
I'd be going back to see them, if I were you. ;-)

Paul

 

[olliecast]

tried ringing then and the number doesn`t work any more so i think they might have gone bloody bust. at the moment i`m after just sorting the issue with the tyre wearing on the front left. does it look like the camber will effect the wearing of this tyre then?
Could i just take it to my local tracking place to adjust the camber on the front and see how it goes?

 

[olliecast]

update now!! getting 2 new tyres fitted on saturday along with a 4 wheel alignment done for 135 all in from these guys (with my prefferred dunlop tyres so well chuffed):
http://www.alignment-services.co.uk/index.asp

seem alot better than the bloke who did me other one. would you reccomend taking some settings with me? i know my car has whitleline lowering springs but standard shocks (poly bushes though). Could you guys recomend any?? i WILL get my R right before the summer!!

 

[antgtir]

From what you have mentioned with regards to the rumbling or wearing noise when turning left bends id be very tempted to check thoroughly your wheel bearing as thats generally the symptoms of a bearing collapsed. If this bearing is collapsed a) the handling wont be great and b) the tyre wear will be excessive.

On your next trip out i.e. long enough to get things hot id just compare the temperature of your front wheel hubs i.e. test the passenger front then compare the drivers front, you may find that the drivers front will be noticeably hotter than the passenger side, that will most likely be due to a collapes bearing therefore increasing friction and so temperature of the hub itself.

Its a two minute job to check. Jack the car up on problem side, then grab the wheel at 3 oclock and 9 oclock and waggle the wheel, you will be able to feel excessive play generally, compare against the opposite side if needs be. Also do the same procedure at 12 oclock and 6 oclock.

The knock on the drivers side may just be the suspension worn on that particular side or it could be one of the lower arm bushes worn, this can also cause abnormal wear on the tyre. Whilst that side is jacked up off the ground get someone to use a long bar and jam it between the bottom of the tyre and the ground behind the tyre and try to move the tyre / wheel up and down, consistently applying pressure so the wheel is being pushed up and down, you should be able to see if there is any movement in the lower arm bushes.

Hope you find the cause.

Cheers, Ant.