Reconditioned turbo = less boost, help!
- Thread starter mightydquinn
- Start date
If you couldn't get near 1.2 bar boost before the turbo referb then I dought very much its anything mechanically to do with the turbo and it's very common for cracks to develop around the wastegate and unless there enormous I very much dought they are the problem.
I would have said that if 1 - 3 of bob's suggestions above have checked out OK you need to do a leak test, use the search and you'll find previous threads on the subject.
It can't be the actuator as you have already ruled that out, although saying that, it would be a good idea to test the actuator, you can do this if your careful with a compressor, air gauge and some vac pipe, this will gauge at what pressure the actuator is operating. A standard actuator should take you to 1.2 - 1.4 bar no problem but remember you can safely adjust it a lttle via the push rod to make it open earlier or later if you should need to (you will also find threads on actuator set up in the achieves). Alternativley if you really want to rule out the actuator you could wire it up so it stays closed (thats what I'd do before stripping it all off again).
If you still have the boost failure then you need to do the leak test, it would have to be quite a big leak so you will hear it easily if you pressurise your system.
Lastly as you have mentioned you still use the standard recirculating dump valve, which could be at fault. I know you said you liked the sound (or lack of it) of the recirculating valve but you do realise that the weld on boss your getting welded up is for the HKS SSQV which can also be made into a recirculating valve and sounds very similar to the standard valve.
this is what I would be looking at:
1. test the actuator, leave all the plumbing in place and wire up your wastegate so it stays closed. go for a gentle drive to see what boost pressure you reach.
2. do a search and see what we have all done over the years to test for boost leaks. Do a boost leak test. Pay close attension to all you pipe work and your standard dump valve.
Don't fit the new front mount until youv'e sorted this as potencially you would just be adding another complication.
do that and report back ;-)
I would have said that if 1 - 3 of bob's suggestions above have checked out OK you need to do a leak test, use the search and you'll find previous threads on the subject.
It can't be the actuator as you have already ruled that out, although saying that, it would be a good idea to test the actuator, you can do this if your careful with a compressor, air gauge and some vac pipe, this will gauge at what pressure the actuator is operating. A standard actuator should take you to 1.2 - 1.4 bar no problem but remember you can safely adjust it a lttle via the push rod to make it open earlier or later if you should need to (you will also find threads on actuator set up in the achieves). Alternativley if you really want to rule out the actuator you could wire it up so it stays closed (thats what I'd do before stripping it all off again).
If you still have the boost failure then you need to do the leak test, it would have to be quite a big leak so you will hear it easily if you pressurise your system.
Lastly as you have mentioned you still use the standard recirculating dump valve, which could be at fault. I know you said you liked the sound (or lack of it) of the recirculating valve but you do realise that the weld on boss your getting welded up is for the HKS SSQV which can also be made into a recirculating valve and sounds very similar to the standard valve.
this is what I would be looking at:
1. test the actuator, leave all the plumbing in place and wire up your wastegate so it stays closed. go for a gentle drive to see what boost pressure you reach.
2. do a search and see what we have all done over the years to test for boost leaks. Do a boost leak test. Pay close attension to all you pipe work and your standard dump valve.
Don't fit the new front mount until youv'e sorted this as potencially you would just be adding another complication.
do that and report back ;-)
mightydquinn
Member
Cheers for the link trip, I might end up with one of those!
Thanks for your feedback bob and steve . . . . . . Your right steve, I like the recirc valve for its lack of noise and Im now thinking that might be my problem. Last night I put air pressure into the intake system through a vaccuum pipe, the one from my boost controller to my intake manifold (the other half of the pipe goes to the actuator as I dont have the standard boost solonoid controller) I couldn't get it to pressure up because it just came out of the air filter, I think/thought it sould come out of there, is that right? I then tried to block that off with a pop bottle, it was pretty well sealed put leaked very slightly!
The other thing i thought is wouldn't the pressure just go straight through the open inlet vaves and go past the pistons? (presuming they'll be slightly worn?)
And lastly, it sounded like I had a leak at the back of the manifold somewhere but I couldn't feel anything so thought it might just be the sound of the air passing through?? Anyone else noticed this??
Thanks for your feedback bob and steve . . . . . . Your right steve, I like the recirc valve for its lack of noise and Im now thinking that might be my problem. Last night I put air pressure into the intake system through a vaccuum pipe, the one from my boost controller to my intake manifold (the other half of the pipe goes to the actuator as I dont have the standard boost solonoid controller) I couldn't get it to pressure up because it just came out of the air filter, I think/thought it sould come out of there, is that right? I then tried to block that off with a pop bottle, it was pretty well sealed put leaked very slightly!
The other thing i thought is wouldn't the pressure just go straight through the open inlet vaves and go past the pistons? (presuming they'll be slightly worn?)
And lastly, it sounded like I had a leak at the back of the manifold somewhere but I couldn't feel anything so thought it might just be the sound of the air passing through?? Anyone else noticed this??
watoga
Member
Hi,
You mentioned a leak at the back of the manifold. Do you mean the exhaust or inlet manifold? At the minute I've got a leak coming from my exhaust manifold. It has a rapid "phut, phut, phut" sound at idle where the air is pushing past the manifold gasket. When driving the car boost is VERY slow at building (due to all the air escaping!), but can still get past 1 bar. If the leak is severe, then perhaps all the exhaust gases in the world won't be enough to spool the turbo past 0.7 bar. Just a thought.
Dave
You mentioned a leak at the back of the manifold. Do you mean the exhaust or inlet manifold? At the minute I've got a leak coming from my exhaust manifold. It has a rapid "phut, phut, phut" sound at idle where the air is pushing past the manifold gasket. When driving the car boost is VERY slow at building (due to all the air escaping!), but can still get past 1 bar. If the leak is severe, then perhaps all the exhaust gases in the world won't be enough to spool the turbo past 0.7 bar. Just a thought.
Dave
mightydquinn
Member
The inlet mate! If your exhaust manifold is blowing Id get that fixed, especially if its blowing onto your alternator otherwise it will melt the insides! I had that problem when I bought mine!
Right then spent all night, made myself an adaptor to find the air goes straight through the inlet manifold and into the engine, then I took the intercooler off, blocked it off at both ends and put a valve in one end to find that holds pressure fine! so put the adaptor onto the intake manifold, pressure kept dropping down to none but for the little time i put it to 2 bar, (naughty i know!) I couldn't hear any boost leaks, well untill it blew a vac pipe off! So is the theory I have right that, the pressure I put into my inlet manifold just going through my inlet valves which are open and then going past my piston rings, pressurising my whole engine and leaking out of my rocker cover gasket which I know has a slight weep!?????
Not a happy man :roll:
Think im going to end up taking the turbo completely off again, as seen as before I had that refurbed it would boost to 1.2 bar but would then drop to 1 bar and since I put it back on will only boost to 0.7.
Does anyone know besides the actuator or the cracks, if anything else inside the turbo could be causing a loss of boost?? I know very little about turbo rebuilding!
Thanks again, Chris.
P
pulsarboby
Guest
trouble with cracked exhaust housings are that the cracks get bigger when hot so if the crack extends further than the wastegate penny then theres a very good chance of losing boost pressure. small cracks around the inner edge of the penny are common and wont make any difference, but weve had a few cars in that have suffered from the same symptoms as yours and virtually all have led to cracked exhaust housings and pressure loss.
did you do as i said and put a pair of long nose pliers on the actuator rod to see if there was any movement in it?
did you do as i said and put a pair of long nose pliers on the actuator rod to see if there was any movement in it?
mightydquinn
Member
Yes mate, i did all that tonight, it had no play in it at all, i even managed to pull it open with the pliers and made sure it sprung back closed! If your happy to give me good advice, i'll try it!
It cant really be anything else other than the cracks by the sound of things then, i think there pretty big anyway!
P
pulsarboby
Guest
if it does prove to be a cracked exhaust housing which is looking to be the case now, then i would wanna know why the guy at the builders accepted your dosh for a rebuild telling you that they would be fine:shock:
pretty poor if you ask me. he should have told you that its not worth rebuilding in that state
pretty poor if you ask me. he should have told you that its not worth rebuilding in that state
mightydquinn
Member
I will, don't worry! I should hopefully be able to finish taking it off at dinner time and I'll have a look. I'll keep you all informed and let you all know what fixed it. . . . . . when I eventually do! :roll:
mightydquinn
Member
Got my turbo back just now. He is adamant that the cracks are NOT my problem but would get a new turbine housing or get it cast welded for me to prove me wrong! :shock: He couldn't get me a turbo housing so told me he had got it cast welded for me, I HAD A LITTLE DIG WITH A SCREWDRIVER BEFORE I FIT IT JUST TO MAKE SURE IT WAS WELD. . . . . . . . IT WAS FU****G ARALDITE. How am I supposed to prove him wrong when its not welded, araldite wont last two minutes :evil: I hate been lied to!
One crack is about 35mm's and the other side about 25mm's (its hard to tell now its covered up in araldite) They didn't look wide in any way but were long so I'm guessing would open up? Is this sort of length excessive for cracks, or because I couldn't see through them is the turbo builder right, bearing in mind I can only manage max 0.7 bar boost and cannot find any boost leaks or blockages anywere??
Now I believe I need a turbine housing (standard T28) and quite possibly information on how to fit it (if it's simple enough!)
If anyone has one or knows were I can get one (preferably uncracked or very very small) please let me know. I might end up taking you up on yours Steve P, would it be better it been a slightly bigger housing? How much would you want for it delivered?
GTIR-aholic, you may be of great help here too!
All help is welcomed, thanks Chris
One crack is about 35mm's and the other side about 25mm's (its hard to tell now its covered up in araldite) They didn't look wide in any way but were long so I'm guessing would open up? Is this sort of length excessive for cracks, or because I couldn't see through them is the turbo builder right, bearing in mind I can only manage max 0.7 bar boost and cannot find any boost leaks or blockages anywere??
Now I believe I need a turbine housing (standard T28) and quite possibly information on how to fit it (if it's simple enough!)
If anyone has one or knows were I can get one (preferably uncracked or very very small) please let me know. I might end up taking you up on yours Steve P, would it be better it been a slightly bigger housing? How much would you want for it delivered?
GTIR-aholic, you may be of great help here too!
All help is welcomed, thanks Chris
I would be able to strip your turbo and cast weld your existing housing if you like, I have all the equipment here, let me know if your interested.
edit: one thing I have just thought about is...........as this so called "turbo shop" has gone so far as to use some sort of resin to fill the cracks, are you sure he's actually reconditioned the turbo at all ? could he have given you a different unit. Just out of interested who did you use ?
edit: one thing I have just thought about is...........as this so called "turbo shop" has gone so far as to use some sort of resin to fill the cracks, are you sure he's actually reconditioned the turbo at all ? could he have given you a different unit. Just out of interested who did you use ?
certainly a cheap option Chris, if you weren't up to swapping the housings I can sort that for you if you send it all over
mightydquinn
Member
Cheers you two! The turbo place was ITS turbo's. There supposed to be good! How much would you want for it all doing steve? And same question to ollie??
Is it easy or hard with special tools needed to swap housings??
Is it easy or hard with special tools needed to swap housings??
mightydquinn
Member
Oh, and yes, it was my turbo he gave me back originally because the cracks were exactly the same and i believe he has done what he said to start with!
mightydquinn
Member
What happened?
P
pulsarboby
Guest
25mm cracks:shock::shock::shock: that would be the worst ive seen!
weve had them in before that are under 10mm in lengh and thats enough to totally booger the turbo. araldite:shock::doh: class bodge:roll:
you have been taken for a ride in the best sense of the word.
you would have been far better to have took the turbo i had which turned out to be a goodun afterall lol
this place sound like a right bunch of robbing caniving muppets, that really is shoddy even in a bodging way.
weve had them in before that are under 10mm in lengh and thats enough to totally booger the turbo. araldite:shock::doh: class bodge:roll:
you have been taken for a ride in the best sense of the word.
you would have been far better to have took the turbo i had which turned out to be a goodun afterall lol
this place sound like a right bunch of robbing caniving muppets, that really is shoddy even in a bodging way.
gtirjoey
Member
they rebuilt a turbo for me,(couple of years ago now) that was a bit smokey and didnt hold boost.
like yours it had the cracks in the exhaust housing, which they said was not a problem and they repaired them with the resin.
also tested the actuator which they said was fine, once i refitted the turbo it still didnt hold boost and within a week the turbo was completly f**ked...
i decided to buy a second hand turbo fitted it using my original actuator and still not holding boost....
so aswell as them messing the rebuild up they told me the actuator was fine when it was not working.
like yours it had the cracks in the exhaust housing, which they said was not a problem and they repaired them with the resin.
also tested the actuator which they said was fine, once i refitted the turbo it still didnt hold boost and within a week the turbo was completly f**ked...
i decided to buy a second hand turbo fitted it using my original actuator and still not holding boost....
so aswell as them messing the rebuild up they told me the actuator was fine when it was not working.
mightydquinn
Member
All bad news then, not good! The araldite pi***d me right off especially when they told me they had it cast welded! I would have been much better just buying another turbo from you, if only i could of seen what was coming! At least its got a 360 bearing in though. . . . Hopefully anyway! I think either olliecast or pulsar craig will be able to supply me a good housing, ollies has even been welded already The short crack was 25mm, the long one actually comes up the side of the housing! If it wasn't araldited up id take a pic, i might be able to pick some of it off once i've fixed it properly and got some time, at least it will give you all a good laugh anyway!
The short crack was 25mm, the long one actually comes up the side of the housing! If it wasn't araldited up id take a pic, i might be able to pick some of it off once i've fixed it properly and got some time, at least it will give you all a good laugh anyway!