mapping standard ecu

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pulsarboby

Guest
sold some bits on here the other day to a chappie who works for fords!
his car is running over 300bhp on standard everything at 1.2 bar

now i was talking to him regarding mapping, and he reckons one of the guys where he works, (whos seriously into tuning) can map the standard ecu with his box of special tricks and a laptop.
he plugs it in and you drive the thing under different load settings etc etc!

he mapped this guys car and i must say that it sounds perfect (barring a dodgy afm which we sorted out)

if this is the case then i can save myself a fortune on mapping costs and so forth, as he also alters ignition map to suit!
(jim kindly offered to have a go at mine when i saw him on trackday) and much appreciated was the offer:-D but i will still need to buy a power fc and wideband lambda, but this way i maybe able to cut costs and take a shortcut.

has anyone heard of this being done before?

im pretty divvy:der: when it comes to mapping, as i have never really took time out to learn about it all, but if someone has the knowledge and necessary software, then i cant see why it cant be done!

afterall it is just a processor, and i would have thought that they can be re-written!
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
Your right, it can be done, but not to a standard ecu without mods. You need to have a daughterboard soldered onto your ecu, so that two 8 bit chips can be used to hold the necessary data.

Ive read a little bit about it, and this is what im doing to my car. I bought an ecu with the daughterboard in it. It starts off wth a base map, run on the rollers, changes logged, burned to a chip. So on and so forth, until all the fuel and ignition maps are right.

Ive got loads of sites with good reading about it. Its huge in OZ, no one over there bothers with aftermarket management like apexi because its so expensive.

If you want a daughterboard, try this fella......

DAUGHTERBOARDS
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
cut costs yes, take shortcuts no.

The only reason people buy aftermarket management is to MAP the car, aswell as other little things u get.

Most of the EVO lads can map there standard ecu with an ecutek, it costs the same to map, but saves £600 worth of APEXI.

A standard ecu mapped with a daughterbord will do as good a job as apexi.

I know Jez at Horsham Developments maps standard ECU`s
 
campbellju

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
Alright Bobby :)

If you trust the guy and he has the kit then that's cool. 300hp at 1.2Bar ain't impressive or difficult though. I think Dan is in this range with no fuel computer and you've seen how reliable his car is!!

Worst case he needs a fuel pressure increase and his jobs done.
Its a can of worms as to whether its safe or not but back to you anyway.

The Australians sware by daughterboards, in UK we don't really have the experience. I did a microcontroller at UNi ages ago that used a flash room, there's nothing special about them, you just need the software. I looked into it before I went for the PFC but was a lazy ****. This was a few years ago when the information was more scarce and I wanted to spend my time mapping rather than fiddling with the software.

BTW, when's the next trackday, it was fantastic fun last time.
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
Its quite easy (relatively), and the gtir one is not 16bit (afaik) so you don't need two 8 bit chips. By the end of 2007 I intend to be offering this as an alternative.
 
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PaulB

PaulB

Member
As far as im aware Ed it does have a 16bit chip:-

The SR20 ECU uses a 16 bit data bus. The EPROM's used are 8 bit devices - they are set up so that the upper 8 bits are supplied by one chip and the lower 8 bits from the other chip. 16 bit EPROM's could be used but the are relatively expensive (and more difficult to source) compared to 8 bit chips
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And an emulator would be the best thing to use, but it would require 2 inputs from the daughterboard, one for the odd side and one for the even.
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
I stand corrected your quite right, I was thinking of the CA series ECU's, I actually have several daugherboards here from various Nissan ECUs (sr20's). When I get time I shall have a play with them. I don't get asked very often for stuff like this so right now its not really worth investing anything in. I would like to do this however and be able to offer off the shelf conversions for the typical kind of upgrades you get.
 
Y

youngsyp

Active Member
Bob,

You could speak to these guys too www.h-dev.co.uk

Do a search for 'bikirom'. It's a forum that's well into this sort of thing.

You could also buy yourself Datascan and the required lead, for monitoring the ecu from these guys: www.plmsdevelopments.com

I'd be interested to see how you get on as, this is the route I'm gonna go !
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
the bikirom daughterboard is more expensive than the one from PLMS.

Id just go for the daughterboard and chips off those guys, oh and the datascan.

Ive got it, and it comes in well handy when doing the power runs and keeping an eye on stuff. Even shows you the fuel and ignition maps that are stored on the chips.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
Hi Gents, sorry to but in when i dont post on here often, however i have dealt with a few of you in the past, so i will try to help.

The sr20 boards are widely availble, i can provide / provide information on where to get them if needed.

people wrongly believe this is an "easy / cheap" solution, it is not.

to do it correctly you are going to need, the board and eproms, two emulators, or one clever one such as the multirom 16L, wideband reader, good software, and a good knowledge of the nissan ecu programme.

some boards don't require odd/even data, so cheaper emulators can be used.

but most cheaper emulators dont allow for map tracing, which is very important, some tuners use a "rich column" to indicate location on the map.

btw im not an engine mapper, Jez at h-dev is though, say pete from nissan tech sent you if your serious.

There is a huge amount of rubbish / wrong information out there about the nissan ecu, don't trust it.

if you have any questions let me know.
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
micra-pete said:
people wrongly believe this is an "easy / cheap" solution, it is not
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I think what people mean, or what i think of it all, is that it saves you actually buying a very expensive stand alone ECU in the first place, although the daughterboard and chips are £50

The mapping of the ECU is still just as time consuming to do it properly, and must be done properly, buy someone who knows what there doing.

Using the std ECU is the route I am taking, and think it will work very well.

Also, the map tracing is something which can be done with the datascan.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
the map tracing on datascan only works on certain cars "out of the box" unless you go through the code and find the correct tp / rpm address for the reference values, it won't, however if it doesn't work on your car, let me know, and i can take a look at your rom, i have provided a few addresses for the sr / ka ecu tuner.

i know about datascan, i have used various versions for some time, and yes the map tracing can work, but it still means you looking at the trace in one window, and mapping in another.

yes the boards are around £50, however that is not the only thing you need to successfully map your ecu.

£-£ some standalones around the same price when a good burner, emulator, software, wideband are included, and much easier to use.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
ed on here does some good work from what i see, as does jez at h-dev.

probably cheaper / easier than going this route
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
Thanks Pete, kind words indeed.

Just want to echo Pete's thoughts. There is good reason why remapping a stock ecu is not more common than it is. It can be done but its quite often not as flexible or as fast as a unit designed to do the job.

Oh and mapping with a rom location shown in another window not overlayed is an utter pain in the ****.
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
micra_pete said:
£-£ some standalones around the same price when a good burner, emulator, software, wideband are included, and much easier to use.
Click to expand...
By wanting to use my standard ECU for the tuning, I am not about to go and buy an emulator and wideband etc, just find someone to do it for me.

the guy doing mine is Matt, at The Racing Line in halifax, on his 4wd rolling road. Although there are a few others who can do it, they dont have the rollers, making it a pain in the **** when starting from scratch.

If the std nissan ecu had a flash based ROM like Evo`s etc, no doubt it would be a lot more popular, but as it is, you need quite a bit of kit to do the mapping in real time.
 
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Y

youngsyp

Active Member
micra_pete said:
Hi Gents, sorry to but in when i dont post on here often, however i have dealt with a few of you in the past, so i will try to help.

The sr20 boards are widely availble, i can provide / provide information on where to get them if needed.

people wrongly believe this is an "easy / cheap" solution, it is not.

to do it correctly you are going to need, the board and eproms, two emulators, or one clever one such as the multirom 16L, wideband reader, good software, and a good knowledge of the nissan ecu programme.

some boards don't require odd/even data, so cheaper emulators can be used.

but most cheaper emulators dont allow for map tracing, which is very important, some tuners use a "rich column" to indicate location on the map.

btw im not an engine mapper, Jez at h-dev is though, say pete from nissan tech sent you if your serious.

There is a huge amount of rubbish / wrong information out there about the nissan ecu, don't trust it.

if you have any questions let me know.
Click to expand...
Horsham Developements are who I'll be using to modify and map my ecu.
From what I have seen of the remapped standard ecu, it's more than enough for what I'd want it for. I only run minor modifications but, from past experience of remaps, I'm more than happy I could get good gains, better economy and an all round better map going this route. Plus, it's a break from the norm, where the GTiR is concerned which, I'm always itching to do !
 
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