O
Odin
Guest
Micra Ed said:
:shock: :shock: for f*cks sake you two get a bl00dy room will you :roll: :roll: :roll: .
Rob
P
pulsarboby
Guest
>quote For a daily driven, quick down the twisties or round a circuit car you want as much torque as early as possible for as long as you can realistically get it within your rev range <quote
you have just confirmed the answer to my earlier question kieron:-D exactly my point, huge bhp and torque, good on dragstrip but crap round the streets and on curcuit, as its truly wasted!
lets face it, with the exception of a small minority, how many people on here will use that big bhp and torque figure, other than on a dyno???
and for what?
its cost them thousands of pounds to say that theyve recorded 400 or 450+ on a dyno, which they will never use in reality (serious drag boys aside).
would they not be better to invest there hard earned in something more sensible ie some extra chicken nuggets down mcd's or a life long membership of max power! or better still with a little more saving they could buy a gorgeous calibra and have some money left over to bling it up a little!
its all beginning to make sense now
you have just confirmed the answer to my earlier question kieron:-D exactly my point, huge bhp and torque, good on dragstrip but crap round the streets and on curcuit, as its truly wasted!
lets face it, with the exception of a small minority, how many people on here will use that big bhp and torque figure, other than on a dyno???
and for what?
its cost them thousands of pounds to say that theyve recorded 400 or 450+ on a dyno, which they will never use in reality (serious drag boys aside).
would they not be better to invest there hard earned in something more sensible ie some extra chicken nuggets down mcd's or a life long membership of max power! or better still with a little more saving they could buy a gorgeous calibra and have some money left over to bling it up a little!
its all beginning to make sense now
Words from Garrett on choosing the right turbo. If you can get your head round it its an interesting read and very relevan to the original question.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html
My take on all this is I remember when we were all trying to rag T28's on these cars to deliver upto 380hp with all sorts of talk of water injection etc etc. The basic problem was above 340hp, depending on your engine's VE, we were right on the choke line for the compressor map. Engines were having problems. Rob and others proved that its better just to fit a bigger turbo/injectors and get it mapped properly to achieve the same target.
This talk of ragging the 3071 to 450hp gives me Deja vu. Technically it might be possible but IMO if you're trying to push the turbo that hard then you've fitted the wrong turbo
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html
My take on all this is I remember when we were all trying to rag T28's on these cars to deliver upto 380hp with all sorts of talk of water injection etc etc. The basic problem was above 340hp, depending on your engine's VE, we were right on the choke line for the compressor map. Engines were having problems. Rob and others proved that its better just to fit a bigger turbo/injectors and get it mapped properly to achieve the same target.
This talk of ragging the 3071 to 450hp gives me Deja vu. Technically it might be possible but IMO if you're trying to push the turbo that hard then you've fitted the wrong turbo
Ahhh but It all depends on where the huge bhp and torque are in the rev range and whether the chassis can handle it, slapping on a 3071 (till theres something better) and running it at 1.5bar ish will give you a very fast and driveable R, which shouldn't put excessive stress on the rest of the car, push the boost further and the torque rises which then puts extra stress on the car aswell as causing traction issues etc.pulsarboby said:>quote For a daily driven, quick down the twisties or round a circuit car you want as much torque as early as possible for as long as you can realistically get it within your rev range <quote
you have just confirmed the answer to my earlier question kieron:-D exactly my point, huge bhp and torque, good on dragstrip but crap round the streets and on curcuit, as its truly wasted!
lets face it, with the exception of a small minority, how many people on here will use that big bhp and torque figure, other than on a dyno???
and for what?
its cost them thousands of pounds to say that theyve recorded 400 or 450+ on a dyno, which they will never use in reality (serious drag boys aside).
would they not be better to invest there hard earned in something more sensible ie some extra chicken nuggets down mcd's or a life long membership of max power! or better still with a little more saving they could buy a gorgeous calibra and have some money left over to bling it up a little!
its all beginning to make sense now
Its all a fine ballancing act really and the difficult bit is not going to far ;-)
skiddusmarkus
Active Member
GINGA said:Do you remember when you ran 12.3 in Rob's car? now do you also remember the estimated 0-60 time from the meter thing you had fitted at the time? I believe it was around a 3.6 sec time which would be about right on a drag strip, now I also believe the terminal speed was 110mph....... you can see where i'm going with this can't you :lol:
So bearing in mind that Rob's car and the wrc car have a very similar power to weight ratio, does this not prove that it could indeed take another 9 or so seconds? I'm sure the gear change on the wrc car will be much quicker but then it also needs to make a extra gearchange in that distance.
Also heres the results from the performance calculator for a wrc car
Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 330
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1230
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 272.60
0 - 60 (Secs) : 3.85
0 - 100 (Secs) : 10.08
60 - 100 (Secs) : 6.23
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.52
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 111.44
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.12
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 115.21
Strangley similar to what the wrc car actually did at Santa pod isn't it ;-)
Edited to add..... isn't it nice to have half sensible discussions on here for a change
Ofc I remeber beating Rob's PB by over 0.5 seconds Paul,how could I forget?Or let him forget
. There's no way a WRC car takes so long to go from 60-115 or whatever though.Most performace calculators are based on road going cars,and a WRC car only really resembles the car it's base don in as much as they have the same shell.They may only have 300-330bhp but not all 300bhp are equal,some are more equal than others
.They are basicly chosing to have that power due to the regs.BTW there's only one way to test this theory out IMO and that is..........................................Grand Tourismo
.Don't just take stnard gearbox settings either,**** abotu with the gear ratios.
iirc WRC are all limited to 300hp but have higher torque figures
2006 Focus WRC car:
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 300(224) / 6000rpm
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 406(550) / 4000rpm
2006 Focus WRC car:
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 300(224) / 6000rpm
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 406(550) / 4000rpm
I didn't think you'd forget Rob only just scraping into the 12's while you were getting 12.3's in his car :lol:skiddusmarkus said:Ofc I remeber beating Rob's PB by over 0.5 seconds Paul,how could I forget?Or let him forget
There's no way a WRC car takes so long to go from 60-115 or whatever though.Most performace calculators are based on road going cars,and a WRC car only really resembles the car it's base don in as much as they have the same shell.They may only have 300-330bhp but not all 300bhp are equal,some are more equal than others
BTW there's only one way to test this theory out IMO and that is..........................................Grand Tourismo
I agree that not all 300bhp's are equal but still say theres no way a 330hp/430ftlb 1230kg car is going to get anywhere near a 10 sec 1/4 even with the best gearbox ratio's in the world, I just don't think its possible unless they can get a 60ft time of 1 sec :lol:
Grand Tourismo thats as bad as Max power :lol:
I did think of a way to find out, and thats to time them from the onboard footage where they have the speed showing, that should give a good idea of how quick they get to 100ish, just need some suitable footage now :roll:
Why eat McDonalds? - it taste like shit anywayMicra Ed said:
Subway seems to be the only thing worth getting atm