backfire when off the gas

nimhbk

New Member
right set the car timing to 18 degree instead of 20, to be on the safe side as recomended by Bobby boy, now got popping/bang noise when i take my foot of the the accelerator.

what do i look at to stop this, as its scares the shi@ out of pedestrians and i can see the fuzz pulling me over
 

WEEGAZ22

New Member
check your exhaust system doesn't have any leaks, a rich running engine and an exhaust with a small leak/hole in it will allow air to be pulled in on over-run and this can help fuel rich exhaust gas to ignite in the hot exhaust.

if exhaust seems good then start looking at getting your fuelling checked over
 

GTI-R Nath

New Member
isn't 700rpm a bit low for a idle. my car back fires flames all the time i thought it was to be expected on a turbo car without a cat
 

WEEGAZ22

New Member
750 rpm was usually standard idle i'd set on most cars unless it was running something like a lumpy rally cam, most cars will happily sit at it others might want a little more, but its not out of the norm.
Backfires and flames can be expected on higher levels of tune as you generally have to add a bit more fuel than normal to help prevent det and keep cylinder temps cooler, so you generally run more towards rich afr's.

could also be you were getting more of a complete burn with the 20 degree timing than that of the 18 and thats why the poppings started
 

GTIR1000

Member
700 is too low 850-900 is gnerally normal for these cars. Also as regards the back fire once you start adding decats walbro fuel pumps and a stainless exhaust your going to get pops and bangs when you let of or gear change. These cars run quite rich as standard but if your worried get your fuelling checked if you have added mods and not had it checked even more reason to check it.
 

WEEGAZ22

New Member
if it was running very lean then the engine wouldn't last (probably where the banging's coming from lol)

also dump valves that vent to atmosphere on MAF'd cars can cause rich running on gear change as well as your dumping out air that's already been measured, as ecu adds X amount of fuel for X amount of measured air.
 
flames/back firing on over run due to running rich is a common misnomer. Its due to running lean, there is not enough fuel for combustion to occur in the cylinder so the fuel gets dumped down the exhaust where the temperature of the exhaust ignites it. Ed from Fusion motorsport put up a more articulate explanation a while ago.
 

WEEGAZ22

New Member
flames/back firing on over run due to running rich is a common misnomer. Its due to running lean, there is not enough fuel for combustion to occur in the cylinder so the fuel gets dumped down the exhaust where the temperature of the exhaust ignites it. Ed from Fusion motorsport put up a more articulate explanation a while ago.
First i've heard of that principle, you wouldnt happen to know where about that is?, wouldnt mind reading it, in my experience its been from rich running, but thats more bikes, but i'm open to different explanations

my understanding is that running leaner than stoich usually means a hotter, faster and more complete burn, richer than stoich is usually slower, hence why its not fully done when exhaust valve opens therefore allowing fuel into exhaust, too lean and you will get preignition depending on compression/boost setup.

i don't get the correlation with lean running = dumping fuel into the exhaust, it should have fully burned if lean, but like i said i'm open to the explanation if it makes sense
 

splmum

Active Member
yep, me too.

I have long been under the impression that backfiring is caused from over-fuelling (running rich), ie on lift off excess fuel in the chamber goes down the exhaust and so backfiring.

Lean fueling will result in detonation, not backfiring.

Would like to read what the experts have to say.
 

splmum

Active Member
Just done a small search and got this
"Explanation

Backfire in an automobile engine typically results from various malfunctions related to the air to fuel ratio. Backfiring can occur in carbureted engines that are running lean where the air-fuel mixture has insufficient fuel and whenever the timing is too advanced. As the engine runs leaner or if there is less time for the fuel to burn in the combustion chamber, there is a tendency for incomplete combustion. The condition that causes this is a misfire. The result of a misfire or incomplete combustion is that unburned fuel or flammable hydrocarbons are delivered to the exhaust manifold where it may ignite unpredictably. Another backfire situation occurs when the engine is running rich (with excess fuel) and there is incomplete combustion during the Otto cycle, with similar results.

Popularly the term is used to describe a sharp report produced by almost any type of engine. However, among engine professionals, "afterfire" is the term used to describe ignition of fuel within the engine exhaust system and "backfire" is the term used to describe this same process taking place in the induction system, primarily in internal combustion engines. The separate terms are useful when troubleshooting running problems.

When starting an engine, timing that is too advanced will fire the spark plug before the intake valve is closed. The flame front will travel back in to the intake manifold, igniting all of that air and fuel as well. The resulting explosion then travels out of the carburetor and air cleaner. A common air filter will allow the gases to escape, but will block the flame front. On many small marine engines, no air filter is used, but a screen is placed over the intake of the carburetor as a flame arrestor to prevent these flames from escaping the intake, and potentially igniting fuel, or fuel vapors in the enclosed sump or bilge of the boat and causing a fire or explosion. Improperly adjusted carburetors that create a lean condition during acceleration can cause the air fuel mixture to burn so slowly, that combustion is still taking place during the exhaust stroke, and even when the intake valve opens. The flame front can then travel up the intake and cause a backfire. In this situation it is conceivable that there is a backfire occurring in the intake manifold and exhaust manifold simultaneously."

So, we have to be careful what we call it, backfire is in the intake, afterfire is in the exhaust. Learn something new everyday.
 

PobodY

Moderators
Staff member
Do you get backfires like than in a EFI environment? That article seems to be mainly about carburettors, and I've definitely seen them backfire the fuel... and now I can understand why.

I suspect the afterfire can be caused by both; obviously if you're just dumping fuel into the exhaust because the timing (or mixture) is out, there's the chance it's going to catch and ignite. Similarly if the mixture is too lean and you get an incomplete burn it makes sense that burn might continue (or complete) once it enters the exhaust and gets a better air mixture (like a hydrogen bomb just whistles until you've got half as much oxygen as hydrogen... then goes BOOM).
 
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pulsarboby

Guest
in a nutshell if its popping and banging off throttle through the exhaust system this is unburnt fuel and quite common on turbo charged cars.

if its spitting back through the induction then not so good and means you have more than likely a timing related issue
 

nimhbk

New Member
Hope you had a good break away Bob

The car done the 200 miles with out much of a problem, apart from the above

will call you end of the month as planned

by the way how do iknow if its spitting back through the induction
 
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