Handling and weight distribution

GINGA

Active Member
Was thinking today (doesn't happen often lol) that the biggest problem with the R's handling is its to front heavy so those people going to all the trouble of removing loads of weight could be actually making this problem even worse :shock: as most of the weight they will be removing will be from the middle to rear of the car so increasing the front/rear weight bias even further :(
But by using the weight you've removed through out the car and adding it to the rear of the car you could balance it out nicely 8) which is what alot of race teams do they build the cars lighter than the regs where possible and bring the car back upto the correct weight by adding ballast to the correct area's to improve the cars balance and thus improve the handling 8)
Just a thought for those getting serious about sorting their R's properly :wink:

Bit more added lol as you can see from the weights below theres a huge difference between front and rear but if you could say lose 100kg from the car (alot I know) and then add it to the very back of the car the front/rear weight distribution starts looking much more favourable for a properly setup track car.
Although whether the better balance of the car would out weight the extra weight of the ballast remains to be seen though i'm quite sure its could be easily put to the test on track.

 

skiddusmarkus

Active Member
It's something I've thought about a lot too.Adding a FMIC in front of the wheels and my much larger radiator(will weigh prob 4 times as much as OE one when full) are going to make the handling worse.I think maybe the removal of the aircon will help offset this though.
To help counter this though I've got lighter wheels and am going to have the car corner weighted with the new coilovers.I've also got a race battery to go in and will have that moved about the back until it's in the best place,then secure it.I'll have it setup for just me as that's what it will be used for most of the time.
 

Nad

Active Member
Thought I had already mentioned this a while back ;) Most Grp A cars are 1200kg so I have taken all out that I dont need and putting it back in as ballast to get 25% over each wheel. TBH its worth it even if u are using it on track because I am sure that a better handling car will outdo one that is 70kg lighter but not set up as well.

Nad
 
A

antilag

Guest
me and edd had the same convo he was saying the car handles very badly due to all the weight being at the front tho on the plus side wen he has been to the drivefru and buts his food in the boot the car handles perfectly whilst he rushes home to eat them burgers mmmmmmmmmm burgers :D
 

GINGA

Active Member
Nad said:
Thought I had already mentioned this a while back ;) Most Grp A cars are 1200kg so I have taken all out that I dont need and putting it back in as ballast to get 25% over each wheel. TBH its worth it even if u are using it on track because I am sure that a better handling car will outdo one that is 70kg lighter but not set up as well.

Nad
You might well of lol
Could make a interesting test of against weight over balance by simply having Edd in the boot for one run then not in the boot the other (while he recovers lol)
 

Nad

Active Member
GINGA said:
You might well of lol
Could make a interesting test of against weight over balance by simply having Edd in the boot for one run then not in the boot the other (while he recovers lol)
:lol:


Nad
 

mohsan

Member
handling

i think this is more like it,talking for the better of our cars,to get equal weight distribution would make the rs awesome,im always looking to better my r,this is something i will definately will actually carry out,once we/ i figure out the best way to do this,as i have read many times before to improove the r it requires work at the back!
this will help tyre wear also which is a real bummer on rs.
like ive said before the r is a diseased car,and now its down to the individual to better it/fix it.
 

kyepan

New Member
Putting the weight in the boot would move the weight back, but would it not be better to put it in the center of the car. While this would sacrifice a little bit of weight distribution, wouldn't more mass in the center of the car help minimise any pendulum effect that would occur. and also help to allow quick changes of direction.

Mid engined rear wheel drive cars are best cause the weight is in the middle.

When on the way back from college for the holidays, i used to pack everthing in the rear foot wells, and it sorted my rover's shitty understeer. i'd guess it was about 50kgs of stuff, like clothes, PC, books etc, and it made a massive difference.. it seemed the more weight i put in it the better it handled.
 

Nad

Active Member
The reason it has got to go in the back is to offset the front load. The further back it goes the better. Putting it in the centre will mean u will need more weight to counteract it. Think of the sliding weights on the metal see saws u used to have a school and how the further u move it from the centre the greater the effect.

Nad
 

kyepan

New Member
I just didn't know if keeping the mass centralised (ish) rather than over the wheels had any effect on the ammount of momentum needed to change yaw.

What you say makes perfect sense though Nad. the further out it is the better it works to counter balance the buckets of bolts we have forward of the wheels.
8)
 

skiddusmarkus

Active Member
Nad has to keep the weight at a certain limit for competition use.The rest of us don't,so I'll see how good the distribution is without adding ballast at the back.Will be interesting to see how they compare.
 
M

MarkMc

Guest
Also think of the ballerina who spins faster with weight in the center but slows down with her legs out . Think about :? , Yeah think about it :lol: :wink:
 

kyepan

New Member
MarkMc said:
Also think of the ballerina who spins faster with weight in the center but slows down with her legs out . Think about :? , Yeah think about it :lol: :wink:
thats what i was on about.. does having the weight in the center make things better or worse.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
The reason it has got to go in the back is to offset the front load. The further back it goes the better. Putting it in the centre will mean u will need more weight to counteract it. Think of the sliding weights on the metal see saws u used to have a school and how the further u move it from the centre the greater the effect..
Placing excess weight right at the very back is a bit silly as two wrongs don't make a right. :roll:

If you want to improve your weight distriubution. always place any additional weight inside your wheels. If you're adding ballast the same is true but it is simplest to add the minimum on top of your wheel than double towards one side.

When setting up your car, try to balance the weight as best you can as a starting point. Removing the air con and moving the battery to the back is a good start. Then if the car still understeers, stiffen up the back soften the front or both. Either through dampers strut braces or springs.

Ultimately if you balance out the rear with another 200Kg at the back you will get unwillingness to turn in followed by snap oversteer. following on from the other anaolgies you will have created a "see saw" that is not normally considered "good handling".


thats what i was on about.. does having the weight in the center make things better or worse.
Depends on if its wet or dry as well. In karting we move the wheels in with wet conditions so you put more downforce over the wheels to gain grip. In the dry you move them out and widen the track for better grip. You can get the same effect in a road car by using spacers or different alloy wheels.
 

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
To answer the original question, 70/30 is a bit high for weight distribution. Old 911's used to be about 30/70 and have similar but oppisite handling difficulties.

A well setup car would always beat a 100Kg lighter one because its well setup :? Notice the poisitive camber on one wheel in the CCC article :shock:

Will a well setup lighter car beat a well setup heavier one... Of course.

Will a better weight distribution beat a poor weight distribution with identical geometry? Not necessarily as it depends on driver prefernce and road/track conditons.

A (properly setup) front biased car will turn in better and brake better.

A (properly setup) rear biased car will accelerate better and have lighter steering.
 
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