coated head

[stumo]

i have a mate who works for an F1 engine builder company (his job is surface preparation of cyl heads) and after waiting months and months he finally sneaked my head in and got it coated......... it allows an extra 13% compression ratio which gives 15% extra HP and similar rise in torque due to the reflective/non conduction of heat properties of the coating (he did explain but it's a sort-of gold/ceramic mix)

It is now known that the coating process is being developed by other F1 teams and they have been approached by several WRC teams to have their heads done.......if this goes ahead then there might be a chance for a select few to have their heads done (any more than a few and he will probibly get caught and loose his job), he's willing to do it for £300 (aparently they're going to charge the WRC teams £6000 to do each head!!!

It can't be done to pistons due to the temp that they run at so to get the most out of this you'd need to get your pistons ceramic coated.

 

[stevepudney]

sounds like a handy sort of friend to have 8)

certainly makes it look pretty................can I use that shot in the calendar (somewhere)?

 

[stumo]

yeah, no probs, i've got a few more that might be better.....


he's very a handy person to know...........

 

[stevepudney]

ok, brilliant

can you mail them to me at stevepudney@aol.com 8)

cheers Stu

 

[stumo]

no probs

 

[olliecast]

whats it like durability wise as you don`t want to be changing back to lower compression pistons if its got a service life?

be awesome to see your results with it though

 

[stumo]

apparently it will last the life of the head as this stuff bonds to the head at (in the words of my mate...) molecular level.
They've done a head for a 4x4 for the car company that owns them that's done over 300,000 miles in testing.

He's still impressed that they've managed to get it to work and you can't chip it off either (he had a sample and i hit it with a hammer and couldn't make it chip....i did dent the sample though8) .

I'm gonna use the extra safety to keep knock levels really low rather than increase the compression........he did say that not getting the pistons ceramic coated will still give a good margin of safety due to the design of the piston crown (verses a more normal piston design like you'd get in a naturally aspirated engine)

 

[olliecast]

sounds real cool, keep us informed!

 

[pulsarboby]

are the valve seats done aswell stuey? they seem to be
if so will that then not cause a major prob with valve lapping as the valves will surely not seat correctly.
if they dont do the seats then will this area not become a weak spot as thats where most heat is generated ie the edges of the coating!

 

[noriek2003]

from what i remember stu telling me the valves are specially machined to suit the coating in the head and not lapped in in the normal manner

 

[stumo]

from what i remember stu telling me the valves are specially machined to suit the coating in the head and not lapped in in the normal manner

Almost right....The valves and seats are machined on a machine that makes a Serdi look like a toy then they're coated in the same way as the head, the process is slightly different but they look identical to me.

I can't believe that the coating stays on the valves but i'm told it will.

 

[vss irvine]

stu can you send me your details, ive seen this done before and £300 is giving it away. ill def get the head on my engine done and if possible another 2 for customers. cheers

 

[stumo]

VSS, PM'd you.

 

[vss irvine]

cool the first head is on its way today stu, cheers

 

[stumo]

OK, i'll let you know when it gets here.

PM sent.

 

[jpward]

This is not some radical new technology!!

People have been doing it for years and camcoat motorsport in Warrington can do it for you.


I would be worried like Bob about the seats being done as the seat is also a heat transfare point for the valve head (exhaust side more so) and a coating only serves to insulate it in my mind thus putting the valve under more pressure to remain stable and more important pressure tight at TDC.

 

[stumo]

This is not some radical new technology!!

People have been doing it for years and camcoat motorsport in Warrington can do it for you.


I would be worried like Bob about the seats being done as the seat is also a heat transfare point for the valve head (exhaust side more so) and a coating only serves to insulate it in my mind thus putting the valve under more pressure to remain stable and more important pressure tight at TDC.

you don't half type sh1te!

The WRC boys are fighting to get their stuff done....at £6000 a head, surely they'd know what's what and if the stuff at camcoat was any good they'd be going there for a lot less....

this stuff isn't a "coating" in the usual sense, it can't be chipped/scratched off **as it effectively becomes part of the metal in the head/valves as it bonds at (to quote my mate) "molecular level".


**believe me, i hit the sample as hard as i could with a hammer (it was a piece of ali approx 100x75x25) and i dented the metal, the "coating" was perfect.

 

[jpward]

you don't half type sh1te!

The WRC boys are fighting to get their stuff done....at £6000 a head, surely they'd know what's what and if the stuff at camcoat was any good they'd be going there for a lot less....

this stuff isn't a "coating" in the usual sense, it can't be chipped/scratched off **as it effectively becomes part of the metal in the head/valves as it bonds at (to quote my mate) "molecular level".


**believe me, i hit the sample as hard as i could with a hammer (it was a piece of ali approx 100x75x25) and i dented the metal, the "coating" was perfect.

Excuse me but I have discussed this with camcoat and indeed with engine preporation specialist in America where they have been doing this on stock motor racing series as your not actually changing CC's, and yet with the thermal coatings applied to both piston crown and squish area including valve faces there was a notible flow improvement and a few more HP higher end. It is noted that the more compression the engine is running the more benificial it would be and hence why I suppose a lot of bikes are running with it.

...and by your own words in saying that Camcoat is providing nothing more than a mear cheap paint on coating shows you dont know who and what they are involved in motorsport wise :doh:

going by what you are saying it is indeed not a coating being applied but some other type of process which I would guess at Surface hardens the material possibily making it denser so ask your friend what they actually do
IE, Treat it with certain chemicals before heating/placed in oven with nitrogen after chemically treating desired area? This is the only way we will know what it is if its not a coating?

 

[stumo]

Excuse me but I have discussed this with camcoat

wow

and indeed with engine preporation specialist in America

double wow

as your not actually changing CC's

I'm not but the F1 boys certainly are....

and by your own words in saying that Camcoat is providing nothing more than a mear cheap paint on coating shows you dont know who and what they are involved in motorsport wise

Please re-read what i typed, i'll post it again, just for you......

The WRC boys are fighting to get their stuff done....at £6000 a head, surely they'd know what's what and if the stuff at camcoat was any good they'd be going there for a lot less....

then i posted....

this stuff isn't a "coating" in the usual sense, it can't be chipped/scratched off **as it effectively becomes part of the metal in the head/valves as it bonds at (to quote my mate) "molecular level

you will note that nowhere did i say that camcoat mearly did cheap paint-on coatings....what i did say was that if the stuff camcoat did was as good as this stuff then the F1 and WRC boys would be using it.

THEN i said that it isn't a coating that can be chipped/scratched off, it was a completely different paragraph.

I think you need to go and eat a few more potatoes as your eyesight is failing you....(or you w4nk too much)

He will not tell me ANY part of the process, it has apparently cost them over 2 million pounds and five years to develop, he told me that at the start and i value our friendship too much to piss him off asking questions that i know he will not answer.

 

[jpward]

He will not tell me ANY part of the process, it has apparently cost them over 2 million pounds and five years to develop, he told me that at the start and i value our friendship too much to piss him off asking questions that i know he will not answer.

:lol: Damn how'd I just know you would say some rubbish like this!




So you've no idea what it actually is then :lol:
(he does not have to say ok step 1 we ....... step 2 we ........ and so on! :doh: )

First it's a coating then its not, then you dont know, come on what is to be Stupedo?

I am betting Localised Ion Plasma Nitrading wont be far of the mark but still shame you cant ask your mate as he will fall out with you I guess we will never know..................................










.................... the boys at Camcoat will be on the Dole any day now poor guys :roll: